Aircon Automation

[CntrlAltDel]

Yup which is why I said use the Auto Mode in the first place.

We've already established I intend delegating the job of auto mode to my automation. What you actually said was "Yup and even if you turn it down to 16-degrees to try and cool the furthest corner that is now still 24-degrees or whatever the aircon is going to turn itself off when it feels that it's reached 16-degrees" to which I'm responding with "At static temp it will just blow air indefinitely at the temp you set." implying no turning off will happen as with Auto mode.

I'm sitting in my study right now which is slightly around the corner from my bedroom where the aircon lives, it's always going to be slightly hotter in here no matter what.

And yes I can set the aircon lower but then the bedroom is freezing.

No degree of Home Assistant can change those physics.

I 100% agree. But my goal here was never to adjust the fabric of reality. I'm only trying to get those areas a bit more cooler. The logic I have is a starting base that I can adjust as time goes to fit perfectly where I dont have to even think about it. Tomtomtom's logic is significantly better, would most likely achieve my goal in a much more efficient manner.

 

[Rickster]

Have a fan in the same room at the aircon, make it swing then it will push the colder air to those sides of the room.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Have a fan in the same room at the aircon, make it swing then it will push the colder air to those sides of the room.

The aircon has a 4-way swing already. But honestly, I'm not ruling your suggestion out if it works, it works. Just prefer automation.

 

[AfricanTech]

The logic I'm using is fairly clear. No magic is involved. Averaging all 3 zones into 1 variable and then cooling based on that 1 variable should get me closer to my end goal than the basic functions that come with the aircon.
If it doesn't, then gg ez it was a fun project.

Absolutely correct - in theory you will be able to drive the AC behavior using your averaged variable.

What others are trying to tell you is that it isn't actually worth the effort.

From what you're describing, I think your AC is either too small for the room volume, or incorrectly placed in the room, or both. I have the same issue on very hot days where the temp in my bedroom varies from one side to the other 'cos it's poorly positioned and the room isn't well sealed.

 

[AfricanTech]

The aircon has a 4-way swing already. But honestly, I'm not ruling your suggestion out if it works, it works. Just prefer automation.

Cold air sinks, warm air rises - so the cold air isn't reaching the furthest hot corner 'cos it's already sunk to the floor and being heated in that hot corner.

There may also be other obstacles (bed, chair, table, misc kuk) that prevents the cold air from getting to that corner of the room - this is why a fan works in conjunction with the AC - it propels the cold air along the middle zone before it has a chance to sink to the floor and not reach the corner.

 

[AfricanTech]

Oh ja, I'm also speaking from personal experience with a generic temp/humidity sensor - I have one in my study that switches the AC to 'dry' mode when humidity reaches a certain level, and, in theory, switches it off when a certain minimum is reached - problem is that it's not a 'realtime' measure - it checks in on it's own schedule and while it sort of works for switching on, it sort of doesn't for switching the AC off again.

I suspect that with 3 sensors you're going to have an even more inconsistent experience.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Absolutely correct - in theory you will be able to drive the AC behavior using your averaged variable.

I could also go by offset or by temps or specific hot spot. That's the cool thing about the automation, the granular control and modularity to change fundamentally how the aircon interacts with the environment.

What others are trying to tell you is that it isn't actually worth the effort.

I recognize this. I don't think the feedback that "this is not how aircon behaves instead this is how it behaves" changes the outcome of there still being a problem I'm trying to solve. There are two people that commented on the logic specifically and the logic in relation to the bigger idea of the automation itself which is good constructive feedback I can work with to change my approach.

From what you're describing, I think your AC is either too small for the room volume, or incorrectly placed in the room, or both. I have the same issue on very hot days where the temp in my bedroom varies from one side to the other 'cos it's poorly positioned and the room isn't well sealed.

It's actually overspecc'd from the room size I just didn't account for the amount of hot air exhausting from my server and gaming rig that is transcoding constantly on Plex. Also even though the general temp on weather is 25°C the outdoor sensors in this high density urban area is reporting 32°C my indoor temp reached 38°C couple of days ago in the room I'm referring to so the aircon is definitely sweating itself.

Cold air sinks, warm air rises - so the cold air isn't reaching the furthest hot corner 'cos it's already sunk to the floor and being heated in that hot corner.

I'm more concerned about heat/cold displacement particularly if the hotspots are significantly warmer than the colder spots that when the aircon goes off it will cause the average temp of the room to rise fairly quick. This is one of the problems I'm trying to solve.

 

[AfricanTech]

I could also go by offset or by temps or specific hot spot. That's the cool thing about the automation, the granular control and modularity to change fundamentally how the aircon behaves.



I recognize this. I don't think the feedback that "this is not how aircon behaves instead this is how it behaves" changes the outcome of there still being a problem I'm trying to solve with automation.



It's actually overspecc'd from the room size I just didn't account for the amount of hot air exhausting from my server and gaming rig that is transcoding constantly on Plex. Also even though the general temp on weather is 25°C the outdoor sensors in this high density urban area is reporting 32°C my indoor temp reached 38°C couple of days ago in the room I'm referring to so the aircon is definitely sweating itself.

Don't forget to take humidity into account as well - on humid days I find the 'dry' function is actually more effective at 'cooling' than the 'cooling' function.

You need to find a way to get that hot air from your PC and Gaming Rig over onto the cool side of the room so that the Aircon can do it's work.

Have you checked whether the AC is able to blow the cool air over into that corner effectively? (skin test ie can you feel cool air on your skin when you're in the 'hot' corner?

Edit: maybe you could look at a duct that runs from the back of your PC over to underneath the AC...

Edit 2: What size BTU is the AC?

 

[AfricanTech]

To answer your original question, yes and no

- I have a Cielo device for the 'dumb' AC in my bedroom - it integrates well into HA and I have automations that control the AC during loadshedding or low battery events. I also have it integrated into Alexa so that it can be operated via voice commands.

- I have a smarter AC in my study that has builtin Wifi that also plays nicely with HA; I use a generic sensor that works with the Tuya integration in HA to switch it on and off based on the humidity level in addition to the same Energy/LS automations - it works okay but the humidity/temp sensor has an irritating habit of 'disappearing' regularly

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Don't forget to take humidity into account as well - on humid days I find the 'dry' function is actually more effective at 'cooling' than the 'cooling' function.

Never knew about this. Unfortunately even thought he AR6500 has the dry function on the remote the aircoin isn't able to do it.

You need to find a way to get that hot air from your PC and Gaming Rig over onto the cool side of the room so that the Aircon can do it's work.

Honestly it's embarrassing this didn't even cross my mind. I think I'll do this over the weekend and see how it goes. Man it's gonna suck to cable manage all from scratch. Spent 4 hours on this.

Have you checked whether the AC is able to blow the cool air over into that corner effectively? (skin test ie can you feel cool air on your skin when you're in the 'hot' corner?

Yehp, I can feel the cold air hit me and then dissipate. When I turn off all my equipment that area is cooled no problemo but when it's all on, i have to set the aircon to 15°C to bring that areas temp down to what feels like 20°C which is roughly my goal. Since I manually get this outcome the idea was "why not automate with real data from external sensors and get more efficient and predictable outcomes?".

Edit: maybe you could look at a duct that runs from the back of your PC over to underneath the AC...

Edit 2: What size BTU is the AC?

I'll try moving the equipment directly under the aircon first and see how that works then look into the ducts maybe that's a good approach also.

Aircon is 12 000BTU, office is 18m2 which should warrant a 9000BTU unit. I just went one step up just in case. Man was I wrong about that 'just in case' anyway.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

- I have a Cielo device for the 'dumb' AC in my bedroom - it integrates well into HA and I have automations that control the AC during loadshedding or low battery events. I also have it integrated into Alexa so that it can be operated via voice commands.

ALRIGHT! Now we're getting to the meat and bones. Your Cielo module, is the highest level one or any of the lower ones? I cant find straight answers on whether or not the lower end ones support for example Wind Free and proprietary features instead of just temp set, off and on. Would be really predatory to only put that on the latest model since IR command is IR command, putting that behind a paywall is just plain skelm.

 

[AfricanTech]

Never knew about this. Unfortunately even thought he AR6500 has the dry function on the remote the aircoin isn't able to do it.

According to the spec sheet is does have a 'dehumidification function' - that's the same as the 'dry' function. It also seems to have a humidity sensor but I'm not sure if HA can pick up that reading from your AC

Honestly it's embarrassing this didn't even cross my mind. I think I'll do this over the weekend and see how it goes. Man it's gonna suck to cable manage all from scratch. Spent 4 hours on this.

Yehp, I can feel the cold air hit me and then dissipate. When I turn off all my equipment that area is cooled no problemo but when it's all on, i have to set the aircon to 15°C to bring that areas temp down to what feels like 20°C which is roughly my goal. Since I manually get this outcome the idea was "why not automate with real data from external sensors and get more efficient and predictable outcomes?".

The only downside is that anyone on that side of the room is going absolutely freeze their tits off

I'll try moving the equipment directly under the aircon first and see how that works then look into the ducts maybe that's a good approach also.

That should work - you'll just have to adjust the swing blade so that the cold air isn't dumped directly on head/neck

Aircon is 12 000BTU, office is 18m2 which should warrant a 9000BTU unit. I just went one step up just in case. Man was I wrong about that 'just in case' anyway.

The issue is probably because it's mounted in the far corner - middle of the room would probably have been better (but not always possible - I have the same issue in my room)

 

[CntrlAltDel]

The issue is probably because it's mounted in the far corner - middle of the room would probably have been better (but not always possible - I have the same issue in my room)

Yep, the middle of the room has a vent and window underneath that the installers said they cannot accommodate. Had to go with the far right side (where my desk and laptop is) vs the far left (which is where the other hardware is).

 

[AfricanTech]

ALRIGHT! Now we're getting to the meat and bones. Your Cielo module, is the highest level one or any of the lower ones? I cant find straight answers on whether or not the lower end ones support for example Wind Free and proprietary features instead of just temp set, off and on. Would be really predatory to only put that on the latest model since IR command is IR command, putting that behind a paywall is just plain skelm.

It's a fairly old model (Breez-ECO) - the integration supports everything that is on the remote, and some things that is in the Cielo App (like switching the Led on/off

Here are some screenshots of the HA integration

 

[CntrlAltDel]

It's a fairly old model (Breez-ECO) - the integration supports everything that is on the remote, and some things that is in the Cielo App (like switching the Led on/off

Here are some screenshots of the HA integration

View attachment 1796052View attachment 1796053
View attachment 1796056

Oh damn, this makes me excited! Yeh I think I'm gonna do this.

 

[AfricanTech]

Two more screenshots

 

[AfricanTech]

Oh damn, this makes me excited! Yeh I think I'm gonna do this.

It didn't fully support my AC (Midea) out of the box but an email to Ciela support and sorted that out quickly.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Have a fan in the same room at the aircon, make it swing then it will push the colder air to those sides of the room.

Yup my whole house is filled with ceiling fans and I actually forgot to say this is how I make it really work for me in my bedroom where the study is off to the side.

The aircon blows directly into the ceiling fan which then redistributes it better to the rest of the room.

My bathroom which is entirely around the corner is always going to be a hot zone regardless of this effort.

Bathroom is the only room where I have the window cracked slightly but I feel this is necessary just to have my towels dry out properly. Not an issue in winter to keep it closed, but in summer somewhat a requirement.

My units on 24-degrees Auto mode all day long seem to be the best compromise between power usage and comfort but then again none of them are inverters. Occasionally on the super hot days I drop it down to 22.

The ceiling fans are all automated to turn on and maintain 22-degrees.

 

[gu3st]

I can't help you get your aircon into Home Assistant (hopefully you've got that covered).

But as to your automation plan, check out this HACS integration: Versatile Thermostat. It does exactly what you want - you set the "underlying" device (which will be your aircon), and you can set an external thermostat (you can create an "average" thermostat based on your 3/4 thermostats just like you planned).

The integration will then control your thermostat and adjust temperatures up and down to keep the external thermostat at the temperature you require. It does it all in the background so the dashboard looks like a normal aircon dashboard, but underneath it's doing all those calculations and adjustments for you. It also has adjustments for how fast you want it to adjust to temperature changes and whether to take outside temperature into account.

I use it quite successfully (although my thermostat is very close to the floor so the temperature fluctuations are quite wild because cold air drops much faster than you think).

 

[hilton]

Perhaps a far cheaper and more effective solution to your hot zones would be to simply install those 200/300mm ceiling extractors. Switch them on with HA based on input from the sensors in those areas.

Unfortunately you can't fight science. You either need to stop the room getting too hot by installing very thick insulation (150mm) in the ceiling or forcing the hot air out (as above).