All about rogues

Soulreaver

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i have a rogue and i want to spec it into assassination to get the mutilate ability. how strong is mutilated compared to ambush and backstab? my brother have a lvl 70 rogue, and he sometimes get a 5k crit in pvp with ambush.
 
oh yes rogues in pvp is awesome... disarm so i cant do a thing and then they continue to stunlock u till u die...plate counts for nothing against rogues ;/
 
Rogues are one of the most fun classes in PvP. Everything is not a walkover, but if you sit and wait for your target you can have a 100% chance on a kill. Notice I dont say you have to sit and wait for someone to be below 50% hp, as that usually a 2 shot kill. The target can be 100%, just need someone that is alone so that you have a duel like situation, with the disadvantage someone can come help your target soon. So you have to execute a perfect kill.

Ie. I have a bloodelf rogue. Stunlock your target, once you are out of stuns, aoe silence on casters put them at a real disadvantage and is that last 2 seconds you might have needed for the kill. Or melee classes, other rogues are easy, you can kill them before stunlock runs out. I find paladins, warriors, dks in very good pvp gear to be the most difficult classes to kill, while not impossible just not always very probably. In bad gear they are still easy. Like mentioned above, disarm does the trick after the stunlock while waiting for timers to run out so you can stunlock again.

Most fun class to play against: By far a mage. This is a battle where you don't have 100% control, but run around and jump around which makes it far more interesting than the general fight where your target run slowly away or just stand there in 1 spot.

Anyways, this is just in PvP, in arena its much different and one can write a book on all the matchups you get here...
 
Thanks tinuva. what is the name of the disarm ability? can you also give me some rotations? with what to start with etc. you dont happen to be a mutilate rogue by any chance?
 
blind is your friend...
True, but a lot of the times, you can't use it in time. For example a warior wil run in on his mount use a dismount/charge macro before you can even get your blind of you are stunned (I use a blind macro so that I do not need to change target, helps sometimes) and next thing you get a series out of control actions on your character and its lost. I sometimes find it easier to vanish sap incoming target (imp sap ftw) and then continiou on my current target with a second cheapshot then blind the target before sap runs out. This is the optimal situation but 50% of the time not the case. Remember even on 200ms latency you have your bad luck.

Thanks tinuva. what is the name of the disarm ability? can you also give me some rotations? with what to start with etc. you dont happen to be a mutilate rogue by any chance?
Yeah I am.
The disarm ability changed, used to be a talent but is now a core ability called dismantle: http://thottbot.com/s51722
I am dual spec, combat for pve (meh, char was this spec when I bought it so its not 100% tweaked yet to what I would like) and mutilate for PvP. I had to redo this, as I used a template from some forums, but found it was not perfect for my playing style.
The char had PvE epic daggers and pve epic items and 0 pvp items. So I started from scratch with that, but the epic pve gear did give me a huge boost to start off with. Most classes if you get the jump on them are easy with the damage I could do, So CS->mutilate->KS->mutilate->evis usually kill most of my targets, if not and I need a little bit more time,
caster/healer: CS->mutilate->KS->mutilate->silence->mutilate->evis
melee: CS->mutilate->KS->mutilate->dismantle->mutilate->evis
In a few cases you will walk into a top ranked arena player and the above won;t work, ie. they will break this with their trinket (or a mage blink/ib, hunters go pet zerk mode) and you will have to make something up on the spot. I never really follow a rule at this point, I just re-act in the best way possible, sometimes you can still win, sometimes not. For locks/priests/druids ect you pop clos almost immediately after they trinket, because they will follow up with fear/deathcoil/typhoon or whathaveyou and you can prevent their next ultra cool move. With warriors you dismantle asap. If a rogue gets the jump on you, GG you probably already lost if you dont have trinket ready for after kidney shot. Most of it come down to experience though, and a lot of it I dont even remember to mention here. Most of these things you learn by losing a lot, trying new things, figure out what the guy did when you lost the game and prevent it in the future.

Ie. In tbc I had al frost mages figured out, could beat every single one of them. Then came along a fire mage and I lost badly purely, because this guy had the talent that had a chance to stun you on every melee hit you have against the mage. It was impossible to win this mage outside of lolcloak.

combat rogues ftw
Great against warriors without dismantle, suck a lot vs most other classes. But they have 1 thing that 5v5 arena teams would love...
Imp ***.
Its the spec that will feel the closest to that of a warrior in pvp, when you really dont need stealth, you use raw power and defense to keep the upperhand. Ie. lots of dodge/parry/fear resist(used to be, now it shortens it?), 4% less damage ect ect.

I still prefer mutilate, because I can have 2 non slowing poisons on, and the spec still applies cripling poison. Win for me, its as good as having 3 poisons on + mutilate you dont have to stand behind the target anymore, what a win!
 
Which spec in the assassination branch applies the crippling poisen? and what is the silence ability called?
 
You have kick, garrote. And Cloak of Shadows basically is pretty much a 5 second silence as well.

Then against non casters you have dismantle. LAME!

This is ofc all 1v1 stuff though. A rogue HAS to be lame, otherwise he will get owned everytime. I was super impressed with this rogue last night in arena, took a long long time to kill, he played SO well.
 
Which spec in the assassination branch applies the crippling poisen? and what is the silence ability called?
Couldn't find this on thottbot, but its called "Deadly Brew" -> When you apply Instant, Wound or Mind-Numbing poison to a target, you have a 50%/100% chance to apply Crippling poison.

50% for 1/2 and 100% 2/2

So against healers this is awesome, you can slow them, AND have wound (less healing) + mind numbing poison(makes casting slower) on.
Only class this doesnt work nice on, is druids and shamans, but with shamans you can kill the totem.

You have kick, garrote. And Cloak of Shadows basically is pretty much a 5 second silence as well.

Then against non casters you have dismantle. LAME!

This is ofc all 1v1 stuff though. A rogue HAS to be lame, otherwise he will get owned everytime. I was super impressed with this rogue last night in arena, took a long long time to kill, he played SO well.
Kick - Only works on casted spells, priests insta fear so my racial is better, also kick just interupts, you need imp kick in combat to have it silence as well.
Garrote - sucks in pvp most of the time, cheapshot is almost always a better opener
CloS is only 90% chance to resist, and has a long cooldown, so I save it for when I want to remove the 10000 dots a lock placed on me as well as for control against a mage to prevent slowing and movement impairting effects. Also good against druids to get rid of FF incase you need to vanish and run

Of coarse, rogues have a lot of abilities to prevent damage and survive, and prep means you can do half of them twice in less than 60 seconds.

Also depends on the class you play, and how much cooldowns you have left. Personally I play offensive most of the time, but also fall back to defensive when offensive doesn't work. Playing defensive first then offensive usually puts a rogue in a bad spot, but mixing is perfect once you get the feel for it.
 
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i have a rogue and i want to spec it into assassination to get the mutilate ability. how strong is mutilated compared to ambush and backstab? my brother have a lvl 70 rogue, and he sometimes get a 5k crit in pvp with ambush.

I played combat rogue all the way while leveling and I loved daggers. Combat + dagger = big no no. So i respecced to mutilate.

I have no gear item above lvl 213 (still got 3 lvl 200's)

Opening with Ambush while having Cold Blood active gets me a crit between 6-8k...

If I have 5CP's and activate Cold Blood, I managed to crit up to 12k on a few occasions using Envenom as a finisher.

Mutilate sucks for mobs, but works beautifully on raid bosses. Don't forget your hunger-for-blood buff that adds 18% to your damage when activated.

I raided ulduar 25man this weekend and having never been in there before, I was top 3 dps in a guild that runs it regularly - only classes out DPS'ing me was survival hunters. We were all doing above 5k dps on the bosses.

A combat rogue I know whose dps was +-4.5k switched over to mutilate and couldnt do much more than 2.2k dps until I told her what rotation to use, she then did well over 5k dps in a breeze.

combat rogues ftw

lol, yeah ... no.

(although you've played for some time now, so you prolly know a few tricks I dont - as i suck at pvp anyway :/)
 
im leveling my lockpicking now. got a skill of 130. i have no idea where to get 125 lockboxes. mobs in tanaris have either 70 or 175 boxes. where is a good place to farm, pickpocket, them?
 
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