AMD and future gaming

Chevron said:
There is no "just in case". It's in the next gen consoles. There is no avoiding it.
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If you're going to be using the CPU for video/audio encoding or other work that can fully utilize 8 cores, then go for the AMD, otherwise stick with Intel for now.

I'm a software developer myself, and I can tell you that it isn't easy to change the software to just quickly make use of more cores. Like a whole bunch of our software simply don't use more than 4 cores either, even though we haven't explicitly limited it to just 4 cores!

If you think it is a good idea to buy a CPU because you think the games will use 8 cores, then just go and buy an Intel i7 3770k instead, because it performs the same as an i5 3570k with the games that utilizes only 4 cores. If the time comes when the games can fully utilize 8 cores, then you'll be ready for that too.

I'm by no means an Intel or AMD fanboy. I read reviews, forum opinions, benchmarks and look at prices and then make a good judgment call on what the best option is. The only credits that I can give to AMD are that they don't change sockets as often as Intel and that their CPU's have roughly the same/decent performance/price ratio as Intel.

So unless you can give me proof that the game developers will release PC games within the next 2 years that WILL make full use of 8 or more cores, I cannot suggest that 8 core AMD CPU at all.
 
Archer said:
110% sure. And to know why all you need to do is read and comprehend. Number of cores are not the be all and end all of CPU performance
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So would a dual core run bf 3 the same as a quadcore?

I recall the same argument was around the time quadcores were introduced, people said no no don't stress games don't make use of a quadcore yet games like the battlefield series you see almost double the FPS on a quad over the dual core. Games started using all 4 four cores. Amazing.

So all you need to do is tell me if games will not be using 8 cores in a year or two and you cannot actually do that thus i move to strike your 110% as BS because you do not know.

Considering i have yet to see a game that can make use of 8 cores means your opinion is even more worthless. So if quadcore can make your fps so much higher than dual core it stands to reason a game made to use 8 cores would indeed have higher fps if run on a cpu capable of using all cores. Reality is we don't actually know archer, please link us this 8 core real world gaming performance vs an intel quadcore please. I would like to read and comprehend.

Please go read and comprehend how much difference there is between a quadcore and a dual on so many games.
 
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Pada said:
If you're going to be using the CPU for video/audio encoding or other work that can fully utilize 8 cores, then go for the AMD, otherwise stick with Intel for now.

I'm a software developer myself, and I can tell you that it isn't easy to change the software to just quickly make use of more cores. Like a whole bunch of our software simply don't use more than 4 cores either, even though we haven't explicitly limited it to just 4 cores!

If you think it is a good idea to buy a CPU because you think the games will use 8 cores, then just go and buy an Intel i7 3770k instead, because it performs the same as an i5 3570k with the games that utilizes only 4 cores. If the time comes when the games can fully utilize 8 cores, then you'll be ready for that too.

I'm by no means an Intel or AMD fanboy. I read reviews, forum opinions, benchmarks and look at prices and then make a good judgment call on what the best option is. The only credits that I can give to AMD are that they don't change sockets as often as Intel and that their CPU's have roughly the same/decent performance/price ratio as Intel.

So unless you can give me proof that the game developers will release PC games within the next 2 years that WILL make full use of 8 or more cores, I cannot suggest that 8 core AMD CPU at all.
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That's a R1000 difference that can rather go a a better GPU that will make a far bigger difference to games performance.

3770k is R3699
8350 is R2874

Rather take that R1000 and upgrade from 7850 to 7950.
 
Chevron said:
That's a R1000 difference that can rather go a a better GPU that will make a far bigger difference to games performance.

3770k is R3699
8350 is R2874

Rather take that R1000 and upgrade from 7850 to 7950.
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No not sure that amd will max out anything.

At the moment buying that amd really isn't a great idea, what you ideally want to do when planning for the future is having or knowing for sure that in the next 2-3 months your new technology will be working. You don't want to be stuck with an 8 core cpu that is slow and 8 core games only start coming out 18 months after you have bought your cpu.

Simply does not make sense and that is where you are headed if you buy amd, well the one you are wanting to, by then intel will have an 8 core that is priced within reason but right now and in the next year possibly two i cant see the technology being utilized daily in the gaming arena, pc that is. I also don't know if the porting process will ever allow more than 4 cores to be used.

As wrong as archer is because there are no 8 cores games as yet, pada is not wrong in saying buy intel now rather and hope the same socket will be around for 8 cores :D.
 
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Pada said:
If you're going to be using the CPU for video/audio encoding or other work that can fully utilize 8 cores, then go for the AMD, otherwise stick with Intel for now.

I'm a software developer myself, and I can tell you that it isn't easy to change the software to just quickly make use of more cores. Like a whole bunch of our software simply don't use more than 4 cores either, even though we haven't explicitly limited it to just 4 cores!

If you think it is a good idea to buy a CPU because you think the games will use 8 cores, then just go and buy an Intel i7 3770k instead, because it performs the same as an i5 3570k with the games that utilizes only 4 cores. If the time comes when the games can fully utilize 8 cores, then you'll be ready for that too.

I'm by no means an Intel or AMD fanboy. I read reviews, forum opinions, benchmarks and look at prices and then make a good judgment call on what the best option is. The only credits that I can give to AMD are that they don't change sockets as often as Intel and that their CPU's have roughly the same/decent performance/price ratio as Intel.

So unless you can give me proof that the game developers will release PC games within the next 2 years that WILL make full use of 8 or more cores, I cannot suggest that 8 core AMD CPU at all.
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well thats the thing, with games being designed for xbox one and ps4, they would utilize 8 cores, but when they are ported over to pc's, will it still use all 8 cores?
 
killadoob said:
No not sure that amd will max out anything.

At the moment buying that amd really isn't a great idea, what you ideally want to do when planning for the future is having or knowing for sure that in the next 2-3 months your new technology will be working. You don't want to be stuck with an 8 core cpu that is slow and 8 core games only start coming out 18 months after you have bought your cpu.

Simply does not make sense and that is where you are headed if you buy amd, well the one you are wanting to, by then intel will have an 8 core that is priced within reason but right now and in the next year possibly two i cant see the technology being utilized daily in the gaming arena, pc that is. I also don't know if the porting process will ever allow more than 4 cores to be used.

As wrong as archer is because there are no 8 cores games as yet, pada is not wrong in saying buy intel now rather and hope the same socket will be around for 8 cores :D.
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Depends how often you upgrade your CPU. My AMD Phenom 2 955 has lasted me 4 years now going on 5. We'll see 8core games before the end of next year.

wannabe said:
well thats the thing, with games being designed for xbox one and ps4, they would utilize 8 cores, but when they are ported over to pc's, will it still use all 8 cores?
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Yes.

Some companies may try to make the games use less cores, publishers hate spending money on PC though so will do the minimum required to get it working. 8core games will be the norm this time next year.
 
killadoob said:
No not sure that amd will max out anything.

At the moment buying that amd really isn't a great idea, what you ideally want to do when planning for the future is having or knowing for sure that in the next 2-3 months your new technology will be working. You don't want to be stuck with an 8 core cpu that is slow and 8 core games only start coming out 18 months after you have bought your cpu.

Simply does not make sense and that is where you are headed if you buy amd, well the one you are wanting to, by then intel will have an 8 core that is priced within reason but right now and in the next year possibly two i cant see the technology being utilized daily in the gaming arena, pc that is. I also don't know if the porting process will ever allow more than 4 cores to be used.

As wrong as archer is because there are no 8 cores games as yet, pada is not wrong in saying buy intel now rather and hope the same socket will be around for 8 cores :D.
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WTF is 8core games? Never heard of that ever? (Those thumbs :eek:)
 
Chevron said:
Some companies may try to make the games use less cores, publishers hate spending money on PC though so will do the minimum required to get it working. 8core games will be the norm this time next year.
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Hmm are you sure there are enough 8 core PC CPU's being used out there for them to optimize PC port for 8 cores? Almost all gamers out there on PC have 4 or less cores based on Steam's stats. Until that changes I'm not so sure 8 cores on PC is gonna help very much. In fact when they port they could purposefully only utilize 4 cores because that is what 90% of the people playing the game will have.
 
AlmightyBender said:
Hmm are you sure there are enough 8 core PC CPU's being used out there for them to optimize PC port for 8 cores? Almost all gamers out there on PC have 4 or less cores based on Steam's stats. Until that changes I'm not so sure 8 cores on PC is gonna help very much. In fact when they port they could purposefully only utilize 4 cores because that is what 90% of the people playing the game will have.
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Explain to me why gamers had to upgrade to a quadcore at a certain point in time, it became very clear that a dual core did not cover all the games that used 4 cores and your FPS suffered severly in some games due to the processing power.

Many people said we would not need quadcore cpu's as developers would not make use of them, exactly the same as we are seeing now :D.
 
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killadoob said:
No not sure that amd will max out anything.

At the moment buying that amd really isn't a great idea, what you ideally want to do when planning for the future is having or knowing for sure that in the next 2-3 months your new technology will be working. You don't want to be stuck with an 8 core cpu that is slow and 8 core games only start coming out 18 months after you have bought your cpu.

Simply does not make sense and that is where you are headed if you buy amd, well the one you are wanting to, by then intel will have an 8 core that is priced within reason but right now and in the next year possibly two i cant see the technology being utilized daily in the gaming arena, pc that is. I also don't know if the porting process will ever allow more than 4 cores to be used.

As wrong as archer is because there are no 8 cores games as yet, pada is not wrong in saying buy intel now rather and hope the same socket will be around for 8 cores :D.
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http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1742870


Downloaded and played Crysis 3. It is the first game that I've played that utilizes all 8 cores and getting surprisingly good performance
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killadoob said:
Explain to me why gamers had to upgrade to a quadcore at a certain point in time, it became very clear that a dual core did not cover all the games that used 4 cores and your FPS suffered severly in some games due to the processing power.

Many people said we would not need quadcore cpu's as developers would not make use of them, exactly the same as we are seeing now :D.
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It's all about multi threading and resources avaiable. So a game optimized for a multicore structure in a multithread environment should be able to use all 8 cores effectively. Like BF3 and Crysis3.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crysis-3-performance-benchmark-gaming,3451-8.html

After testing all of our graphics cards using a stock Core i7-3960X, with its six cores and Hyper-Threading technology enabled, we swapped in a range of lower-end processors and platforms to compare.
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The Sandy Bridge-E-based Core i7 easily beats the Ivy Bridge-based Core i5-3550 and Vishera-based FX-8350, which both achieve about 50 FPS, on average. Unfortunately for AMD, its CPU dips to 21 FPS, while the Core i5 maintains at least 31 FPS.

AMD FX-8350 FX-Series Eight-Core Processor Edition, Black AM3+ FD8350FRHKBOX

Having said that, AMD's FX-8350 provides serviceable Crysis 3 game play. Despite the frame rate valley we experienced in our benchmark run, this CPU achieves smoother performance on average. Perhaps this is something Crytek will be able to address through a future update.
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So yeah buying a 6 or 8 core NOW may be a good consideration.
 
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Personally I think a quad will still be fine for quite some time for two reasons:
1) There is a limit to how much you can parallelize in games. Ultimately you need to tie it all back to the main loop. So you split off AI, pathfinding, sound, IO, physics, and maybe netcode partially. Of those only the AI, pathfinding and physics are CPU heavy. All those tend to utilize whatever is available, rather than requiring a fixed amount of processing power.
2) Games on the whole aren't really CPU bound anymore. A few exceptions aside its a GPU game and this trend will only increase as the "programmable" aspects of the GPU increase.

killadoob said:
Many people said we would not need quadcore cpu's as developers would not make use of them, exactly the same as we are seeing now :D.
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Most sane people said we didn't need them at the time - which is true. Up until about BF3 everything was all good on the dual core front.

So yes we'll need hex cores eventually, but worrying about it now is a bit premature imo.
 
killadoob said:
As wrong as archer is because there are no 8 cores games as yet, pada is not wrong in saying buy intel now rather and hope the same socket will be around for 8 cores :D.
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/facepalm
I have the same argument as pada. But he is right and I am wrong :rolleyes: L2R
 
Chevron said:
That's a R1000 difference that can rather go a a better GPU that will make a far bigger difference to games performance.

3770k is R3699
8350 is R2874

Rather take that R1000 and upgrade from 7850 to 7950.
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^This

Then once you have the 7950 you can do some nice Litecoin mining :p

Other than that, it depends on your budget. Value for money, I'd say go for the AMD. "8core games" shouldn't be a major deciding factor. Rather base it on your requirements. Like many have already said if you're gonna be doing serious video/image editing the AMD is better suited for it. If you want to push the max out of games, go for the i7, as for NOW it is on the top. I personally am an AMD fanboy, been all my life, but I have an i5 3570K which after my own research was the best option for me. All in all do what your budget allows and it really is a good idea to save some cash and upgrade the GPU(if possible).

As for the porting of games over to 8core cpu's, I reckon that depends on the market. Makes no sense for game companies to port 100% of games over to PC that uses all 8cores, if 60%+ still sit on 4 cores. It took a couple of years for quad core to become standard anyway and many duel cores still run without a hitch.
 
killadoob said:
Do you have a real world test on a real world 8 core game ported to pc using a real world 4 core intel vs a real world 8 core amd?

I know a dual core bf 3 vs quadcore bf 3 with a good gpu is a huge difference, granted that isn't a port but a game made for 8 cores ported to pc would use 8 cores or not?

Now i could say my dual core intel is better than your qudcore amd but the amd smashes me in games that use the quadcore. So how sure archer are you that 8 core pc games are not imminent after the release of these consoles? How sure are you that telling someone to go for a quad over a 8 core is correct. Would you say 100% or perhaps 50%?
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BS Multi core 4,6 and 8 core games are already here and available;).

Cryengine 3 with Crysis 3 is capable of using 8 core processors well, and it shows. I think this trend will continue as more engines will be capable of using multiple cores better, especially considering the next gen consoles are using an 8 core x86 AMD chip
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http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topi...-amd-cpus-perform-with-well-optimized-engines

proz.jpg

Also google "BF3 on 8 cores"
 
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