AMD welcomes EU fine on Intel

They weren't offering rebates for choosing their products, they were offering rebates for not using ANY competitors product, or for only using certain amoutns of a competitors product ... (culled ... In a sense denying that competitor the right to equal and fair competition, how libertarian of you Intel.
I did say "there is nothing immoral or unethical about rebates, even if they're paid for exclusivity" and then gave the example of my desk chair manfacturing business (above).

Intel is essentially giving a distributor an extra discount in return for exclusivity. Please tell me how that is wrong (ie unethical or immoral). Yes, I understand it hurts a competitor, and might even drive a competitor out of business, and that might even reduce the number of options we as consumers have. But how is that action in and of itself wrong. Illegal is a different matter, of couse - there are many things made illegal that are not wrong (such as selling soap after 6pm under an old SA law, for a trivial example); it's what we call bad law, and it abounds. Prosecuting people and punishing them under bad laws for otherwise perfectly moral actions is a very bad thing indeed.

To be fair, we have to put aside our brand preferences and think as adults concerned with the broader social, ethical and political issues.
 
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I have an AMD still running after 5 years, and it's 64bit! will always love AMD.

Only problem I have with intel is their support for Israel.. the human rights violator.
 
Anything that takes choice and competition away from the consumer is bad.

Intel has a LOOOOONNNNGGGG track record of trying to con us, the consumers, out of choice. The reason is clear - world domination - in a world where they can ask as much as they want for their junk.

So, rule of thumb to determine if something is bad = does it take choice away from the end user.
 
I did say "there is nothing immoral or unethical about rebates, even if they're paid for exclusivity" and then gave the example of my desk chair manfacturing business (above).

Intel is essentially giving a distributor an extra discount in return for exclusivity. Please tell me how that is wrong (ie unethical or rimmoral). Yes, I understand it hurts a competitor, and might even drive a competitor out of business. But how is that action in and of itself wrong. Illegal is a different matter, of couse - there are many things made illegal that are not wrong; it's what we call bad law, and it abounds.

OK then lets run with your chair analogy:

You don't just offer rebates to Makro for exclusivity (in fact in many circumstances the commission found that a competitor would need to sell a CPU at a loss to match the rebate system Intel was using, proving that Intel was subsidising the chips with the sole intent of destroying competitors, not of beating them to the deal). Let us assume you make this same deal with every major chair retail outlet in the world. Other chair manufacturers cannot sell their chairs, or can't sell enough chairs. They go out of business.

Congratulations you have successfully destroyed competition in the market and are now free to charge whatever you want for your chairs because no one else manufactures chairs.

and please don't feed me that nonsense about "oh well someone could just come up with a superior chair design and beat out the Intel Chair Co." because you can't just spontaneously create a microchip manufacturing company, it requires massive investment.

That is why this had to happen. Do yourself a favour and read the report (not just this article I mean the actual report) and you'll see what I mean.
 
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Also, Arthur, go read up on the history of x86 from a consumer point of view (which we all are). You will soon see what intel stands for and their attitude.

The best part in intel history for me is when they were hyping up IA-64 prior to the release of the itanic and when asked what they think about the competition intel said : "If they don't have a good strong presence by the time IA64 hits, they may as well close up their doors and go home".

Well guess who copied AMD x86-64 and calls it EMT64 ?!

Dammit - I hate intel sooooo much!!!!!!

There is only one company more backtracking than intel, and they now use intel chips after years of badmouthing intel while using IBM PowerPC chips which they also madmouthed with a massive superbowl commercial while they were stuck on 16bit motorola crap...
 
AMD comments on European Commission ruling that Intel violated EU law and harmed cons

The European Commission today found Intel guilty of abusing its dominant position in the global x86 microprocessor market, saying that “Intel has harmed millions of European consumers by deliberately acting to keep competitors out of the market for computer chips for many years. Such a serious and sustained violation of the EU’s antitrust rules cannot be tolerated.” The Commission also stated that “there is evidence that Intel had sought to conceal the conditions associated with its payments.” The EC decision requires Intel to change its business practices immediately and fines Intel a record EUR 1.06 billion (US $1.45 billion).

“Today’s ruling is an important step toward establishing a truly competitive market,” said Dirk Meyer, AMD president and CEO. “AMD has consistently been a technology innovation leader and we are looking forward to the move from a world in which Intel ruled, to one which is ruled by customers.”

“After an exhaustive investigation, the EU came to one conclusion – Intel broke the law and consumers were hurt,” said Tom McCoy, AMD executive vice president for legal affairs. “With this ruling, the industry will benefit from an end to Intel’s monopoly-inflated pricing and European consumers will enjoy greater choice, value and innovation.”

The EC decision stated specifically that:
  • “Intel gave wholly or partially hidden rebates to computer manufacturers on condition that they bought all, or almost all, their x86 CPUs from Intel”.
  • “Intel made payments to major retailer Media Saturn Holding from October 2002 to December 2007 on condition that it exclusively sold Intel-based PCs in all countries in which Media Saturn Holding is active.“
  • Intel “interfered directly in the relations between computer manufacturers and AMD. Intel awarded computer manufacturers payments - unrelated to any particular purchases from Intel - on condition that these computer manufacturers postponed or cancelled the launch of specific AMD-based products.”

Intel has so far failed to convince any antitrust enforcement agency that its business practices are lawful and pro-consumer.

In 2008, the Korea Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) issued a 26 billion won fine (approximately $25.4 million USD) saying that Intel’s abuse of its dominant position included coercing and paying customers millions of dollars on the condition that they use only Intel chips, delay launches of AMD products, and/or not develop any new products with AMD chips. The KFTC also found that, “South Korean consumers had to buy PCs at higher prices as domestic PC makers were forced to buy Intel’s pricier CPU.” In addition to a fine, the KFTC ordered Intel to stop the practice of offering payments to PC makers conditioned upon them not doing business with AMD. Intel is in the process of appealing the ruling.

In 2005, the Japan Fair Trade Commission (JFTC) ruled that Intel had violated the country’s anti-monopoly laws by illegally forcing full or partial exclusivity with five Japanese PC makers. Intel did not appeal the ruling.

In the United States, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and New York Attorney General’s office are investigating Intel for abuse of its monopoly position. In 2005, AMD filed private litigation in the US District Court of Delaware, which is scheduled for trial in spring 2010.
 
In 2008, the Korea Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) issued a 26 billion won fine (approximately $25.4 million USD) saying that Intel’s abuse of its dominant position included coercing and paying customers millions of dollars on the condition that they use only Intel chips, delay launches of AMD products, and/or not develop any new products with AMD chips. The KFTC also found that, “South Korean consumers had to buy PCs at higher prices as domestic PC makers were forced to buy Intel’s pricier CPU.” In addition to a fine, the KFTC ordered Intel to stop the practice of offering payments to PC makers conditioned upon them not doing business with AMD. Intel is in the process of appealing the ruling.

In 2005, the Japan Fair Trade Commission (JFTC) ruled that Intel had violated the country’s anti-monopoly laws by illegally forcing full or partial exclusivity with five Japanese PC makers. Intel did not appeal the ruling.

In the United States, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and New York Attorney General’s office are investigating Intel for abuse of its monopoly position. In 2005, AMD filed private litigation in the US District Court of Delaware, which is scheduled for trial in spring 2010.

I really wished I had known this. I really cannot believe that I missed these reports, although there are weeks when I am simply too busy to watch all the news articles.

I currently have an Intel CPU and motherboard. *cries*

Oh well, one can get back on the right path.
 
We also had this kind of practice in SA!

About 10 years back, my trade account was credited whenever I purchased Intel chips from the suppliers.

The commission amount in USD was stated in the price list.
 
I'm so glad rpm posted that and people are reading it - for once you can see that I am not just a blind and idiotic (OK I am that too) fanboi.

Intel really is an evil corporation and just saying "I buy what is fastest atm" is a very selfish approach. There are excellent CPUs from AMD and even VIA but people don't buy them because intel have corrupted them and if they do not see "intel inside" they wonder if this is some fake computer or something.

Its a shame.
 
And worst of all - AMD's not going to see a single € cent of the money - all going to the EU! Civil lawsuits here we come!

I dig AMD too... Lightning struck my last PC & Nutsurance decided to replace an Athlon X2 3800+ with a Celeron 1.8... Which I replaced with a AMD le-1150 - cheapest AMD cpu I could find! CPU, board and 2GB ram was R750!

BUT... (Start of devil's advocate rant)

So Intel can set up shop in China where people just disappear, but not Israel?

And AMD can partner with the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, also a known human rights violator?

Human rights violations are wrong, irrelevant whether its by a jewish settler/soldier or hamas... Or US, Russia, South Africa, etc...

End of devil's advocate rant...
I have an AMD still running after 5 years, and it's 64bit! will always love AMD.

Only problem I have with intel is their support for Israel.. the human rights violator.
 
So Intel can set up shop in China where people just disappear, but not Israel?

And AMD can partner with the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, also a known human rights violator?

Human rights violations are wrong, irrelevant whether its by a jewish settler/soldier or hamas... Or US, Russia, South Africa, etc...

End of devil's advocate rant...

I find ethnic cleansing a far worse human rights violation compared to the other countries you mentioned.
 
Intel really is an evil corporation and just saying "I buy what is fastest atm" is a very selfish approach. There are excellent CPUs from AMD and even VIA but people don't buy them because intel have corrupted them and if they do not see "intel inside" they wonder if this is some fake computer or something.

Its a shame.

Microsoft is just as bad so I use Linux instead... same can't be said for you I'm afraid.
 
Microsoft is just as bad so I use Linux instead... same can't be said for you I'm afraid.

I still play some games every now and then and my machine is just not powerful enough to run those games through WINE, so I still use XP for games and Linux for pretty much everything else I need a machine for. I would prefer not to have to use XP, but unfortunately I am a victim of circumstance what with game houses only making games for Windows and all.

That being said I like XP despite my negative feelings towards Microsoft as a company, XP may not be perfect, but for the average user it is still much easier than Linux (even Ubuntu, the (IMO) most user friendly distro out there, is not entirely user friendly). Just because I dislike the company doesn't mean they can't produce something useful. I would never purchase Vista though, wow that OS is horrible.
 
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I still play some games every now and then and my machine is just not powerful enough to run those games through WINE, so I still use XP for games and Linux for pretty much everything else I need a machine for. I would prefer not to have to use XP, but unfortunately I am a victim of circumstance what with game houses only making games for Windows and all.

Yep, unfortunately I'm forced to use Microsoft to run games and industrial software.
 
Intel is a better CPU...

Its competition, it's business... I have no problem with AMD, I currently have a Q6600 and for the price I got it at, there wasnt a AMD to compete with it... I do agree though that AMD is a good buy, seeing as their mobos are cheaper with better feature sets...

+1

I currently have a Q6600 and it's my first Intel cpu ever. Only reason I got it was because at the time AMD did not have a competing product. If I had to buy again today I would get AMD. Yeah, features on AMD boards are good.
 
Microsoft has done some pretty bad things in the past, but if you look at initiatives like Windows Live Essentials it is clear that they are not hell bent on killing off competition. They may have been a decade or so ago but that changed.

Recently at Devdays they showed some pretty impressive new PHP support and application deployment accelerators for PHP in IIS. Currently their rationale behind this is not to steal PHP from Apache but to allow people to run it on their current Windows platforms and to reduce the cost of support personnel. Remember, Windows support is a lot cheaper than Linux.

Same goes for SQL Server, they know and admit that it is no match for Oracle when you run with terabytes of data that needs to be profiled and queried fast. But many people just want a medium sized database, with good support, and not overly expensive per CPU license or support fees.

Microsoft has, in a way, grown up a bit. They understand where they fit in and they know that they must integrate with competitors in order to give consumers choice to mix and match.

And that is the bottom line here - consumers want choice and you should not take that away from them. That is actually why Microsoft Windows is so wide spread, it gives consumers the biggest choice of software to run on it.

I am not blind to the mistakes of Microsoft, neither are they.
intel on the other hand... they just won't listen and learn.
 
I am not blind to the mistakes of Microsoft, neither are they.
intel on the other hand... they just won't listen and learn.

Intel has also done some positive things, have contributed to Linux with moblin and have good allinone mobos for cheap builds that are priced well and perform great... nope you're a MS fanboy.
 
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