Amnesty for illegal guns next year

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The National Assembly's police committee on Tuesday recommended the green light be given to a proposed amnesty for surrendering illegal firearms from January 11 to April 11 next year.

However, a proposal that firearms be handed in anonymously during the amnesty was withdrawn, and those making use of the offer will have to provide personal details to police when handing in weapons.

In documents before the committee, Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa said President Jacob Zuma recently announced that everything possible should be done to reduce the pool of firearms in the country, to combat serious violent crimes committed with guns.

As part of the strategy, Mthethwa intended declaring an amnesty for surrendering illegal firearms in terms of the Firearms Control Act for the period January 11, 2010 to April 11, 2010.

Such an amnesty would only be valid if approved by Parliament.

In his draft notice of the declaration, Mthethwa outlined the conditions for amnesty.

Illegal firearms could be handed to a police officer on duty at any SA Police Service (Saps) station. It also stated that no details of the person handing in the firearms would be taken down if the person wanted to use the anonymous process for amnesty.

The notice further outlined the procedure to be followed if the person wanted to apply to licence the illegal firearm.

Proper processes would be put into place to ensure auditing of the records of all firearms surrendered in terms of the amnesty, he said.

But, MPs from all parties raised strenuous objections to the provision for anonymity.

Police would have no way of coupling a firearm with the person anonymously handing it in if it was found to have been used in a crime.

Actual criminals would never hand in their guns anyway. They would rather "throw them in the bush or the ocean" to dispose of them.

In any event, the amnesty would provide the reassurance to people giving their names that they would not be prosecuted. That was the whole point of the amnesty, so there was no reason not to give their names, various MPs contended.

Dianne Kohler-Barnard of the Democratic Alliance said if the clause stayed, "we're on a highway to nowhere. We'll never track it [the gun] back.

"Absolutely, that clause must go," she said.

The ANC's Annelise van Wyk, said there was clearly a need for amnesty.

"I don't doubt that. I also don't doubt it's an excellent idea to provide amnesty, also for those people who have missed [previous] deadlines so they are not criminalised, either to hand in their weapons or to then apply for licences.

"But I seriously have a problem with this anonymous issue. It doesn't make sense to me," Van Wyk said.

The head of the Central Firearms Registry Director Jaco Bothma, said the amnesty was aimed at getting illegal firearms off the streets.

Previous such amnesties had been quite successful.

Secretary of Police Jenni Irish-Qhobosheane said they were happy to take out the anonymity clause.

"Because I don't think it's fundamental to what we're trying to do.

"If you look at who the amnesty is focused on, I don't think that fundamentally we will be altering the intention of the amnesty by taking out the anonymity clause," she said.

The committee unanimously approved a report recommending that the National Assembly approve Mthethwa's draft declaration of amnesty as amended.
 
Is it clear that the old license is indeed invalid? Or this just a way to "scare" people into handing in their weapons?
 
The old licenses are valid as long as you retain proof of reapplication for renewal and until such time as the new license arrives. AFAIK. But carrying a licensed firearm under the old license without SAPS stamped proof of reapplication to renew may cause problems if you are stopped as this is now an illegal firearm.
 
However, a proposal that firearms be handed in anonymously during the amnesty was withdrawn, and those making use of the offer will have to provide personal details to police when handing in weapons.

FAIL!
 
The old licenses are valid as long as you retain proof of reapplication for renewal and until such time as the new license arrives. AFAIK. But carrying a licensed firearm under the old license without SAPS stamped proof of reapplication to renew may cause problems if you are stopped as this is now an illegal firearm.

Only the court could rule that our old licenses aren't valid, there is no such ruling neither will there be such a ruling the because the directors of prosecution aren't relicensing their guns and thus won't prosecute themselves
as explained here http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/LegalPerspective. At present the high court referred this whole relicensing issue to the Const. court in a case brought to them by a huners assocation. These hunters should never have done this! They have in effect "pseudo-prosecuted" themselves. Note that even if the constitutional court rules we must relicense in 8months , it still doesn't mean they can force us because the const. court can only rule in terms of the constitution - they can't order the NPA to prosecute themselves.


"..In terms of section 20 of the National Prosecuting Authority Act, No 32 of 1998, the power to institute and conduct criminal proceedings on behalf of the State (and to discontinue criminal proceedings) vests in the national prosecuting authority. In practice, decisions in most courts on a day-to-day basis are taken by prosecutors with delegated authority from the National Director. In more important or difficult matters, the decision is taken by the various provincial directors or the investigating directors in consultation with the relevant provincial director and subject to the control and directions of the National Director. In some cases, the National Director himself will be involved in the decision-making process and he may even make the decision himself.
 
The National Assembly's police committee on Tuesday recommended the green light be given to a proposed amnesty for surrendering illegal firearms from January 11 to April 11 next year.

However, a proposal that firearms be handed in anonymously during the amnesty was withdrawn, and those making use of the offer will have to provide personal details to police when handing in weapons.

I am at a loss as to why one would be so stupid as to hand in an illegal gun. IF that gun was used in a crime you could get charged. Why don't you just rather the throw the gun away if you want to get rid of it?
 
There goes Capt Wookie again with his lies and assumptions.
For your info (and NOTE THIS WELL) I have personally spoken to the person you keep refering to, and he has clearly stated that he HAS RENEWED HIS LICENCES and his PRIVATE COMMENTS were not official policy, and he has every intention of obeying the new firearms law.
So please stop claiming he hasn't renewed his licences. HE HAS.

G26
 
There goes Capt Wookie again with his lies and assumptions.
For your info (and NOTE THIS WELL) I have personally spoken to the person you keep refering to, and he has clearly stated that he HAS RENEWED HIS LICENCES and his PRIVATE COMMENTS were not official policy, and he has every intention of obeying the new firearms law.
So please stop claiming he hasn't renewed his licences. HE HAS.

G26

......sigh..... :erm: .... lets not start this topic again. But let me ask you a question
1) Why has the NPA not made a single official announcement concerning the need to relicense, they have neither confirmed nor denied anything officially , neither said they will prosecute nor won't.

Isn't it strange that they if they had any intention to prosecute would have at least said something in a press release, how would they deal with 900 000 additional cases on top of their existing 200 000. Wouldn't they want to avoid an extra workload at least warn people to relicense and thus avoid prosecution?

2)The ANC SAPS yes, have been saying they will prosecute, something which in terms of the Constitution is impossible to do. Like those grave somber warning from director Bothma on e-tv pulling his face like a constipated mule. Only problem is he is not the head of the NPA , he is a "sprinkaan beampte".
 
So I take it then that there will be no Prosecution action on the current relicensing issues, validity of old licenses, etc etc until the Hunters case before the Constitutional Court has been resolved?
 
Wrong. Original legit license is valid until court says otherwise, reapplication or not.

Fair enough, but is a lawfully armed citizen going to be subject to the inconvenience of arrest, detention and temp confiscation of firearm for failure to produce proof of relicensing with the old license when the old license is shown, when asked to do so by a Police Officer?
 
Fair enough, but is a lawfully armed citizen going to be subject to the inconvenience of arrest, detention and temp confiscation of firearm for failure to produce proof of relicensing with the old license when the old license is shown, when asked to do so by a Police Officer?


Currently if you have a license (proof of renewal or not) it is fine - AFAIK - I hope.

The dumb argument is that too many licensed citizens have their firearms stolen and they get used in crimes / land up in the hands of criminals.

Good logical thought there. Many hijacked cars get used in armed robberies. Lets remove all licensed cars from the roads and make those that want to keep their cars get their license re-tested! Ridicules argument! So much easier to target the honest people than the criminals i guess.
 
The way I understand it, the current license is valid pending a court case that's under review that came about a few days before the July deadline.

There is a fight about compensation and the cops have to pay the legally acquired firearm owners the value of their guns for forcing them to hand them in and have them destroyed.

If you surrendered your firearm for destruction or deactivation before that then it's tuff cookie, you lost out and got ripped off!
 
what do you need to do now-a-days to get an fire arm license? I want a 9mm?

O yes, where do you buy kelvar vests and helmets and are they legal? Sorry for o/t ;(
 

It's not a fail at all when you realise the true motives for this amnesty, in fact it's very clever, as the purpose is to remove guns from law-abiding citizens --- conditions like that make it specifically so that the types of people who comply won't be the tsotsis, but those who kept their guns without bothering to re-license for NFA 2000 and are now unsure etc. The writing is on the wall people.
 
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what do you need to do now-a-days to get an fire arm license? I want a 9mm?

A good start is perusing the forums on http://www.gunsite.co.za/

It's seemingly not *that* complex, in principle. The first step is you have to do a training course at an accredited training provider (list here http://www.fatsa.co.za/list/training_center_list.php) for the type of weapon you want (in this case, a handgun). This is relatively quick and easy, it might take a day or two of your time. There are actually two courses - one covers the law, i.e. studying relevant sections of the National Firearms Act, when you can use a firearm in self-defence, concealed carry conditions, etc. The other makes sure you know the basics of safe and responsible handgun handling, and involves some actual shooting. Once you pass, you get a certificate that can be used to apply for a license. Basically then you must install an accredited safe, then you choose what gun you want (cf. http://www.gunsite.co.za/What_to_look_for_in_a_Self_Defence_Pistol.html - though if unsure a Glock 19 is a good all-rounder, judging by all I've heard/read), and as I understand it (still going through it), you buy the gun from a dealer, but you don't get the gun until you get the license - the dealer holds on to it. Then there are two forms you must fill in to take to your local police station - one you get from the dealer, which is the actual firearm license application, the other is an application for a 'competency certificate' (for the latter they will want to interview two or three people close to you to check you're not a violent person etc., and they may want to come check your safe). Then you basically wait, anything from a few months to a few years, following up regularly to make sure your application is still moving and hasn't landed in a dustbin by mistake etc. - following up is important, the Central Firearms Registry is not run well.

An important part of the application is writing up a good motivation for stating why you need the gun (stating 'high crime rate' is a big no-no, since we all know the ANC's line is that officially there isn't a high crime rate) - cf http://www.gunsite.co.za/forum/index.php?topic=2339.0 for ideas.

Another major choice is whether you will apply for a firearm for self-defence, or for sporting purposes. For the latter, you may need to show that you do actual sporting / hobby competitive etc. shooting - so e.g. join a club, do some shoots etc. (Note that even if you have a sporting use license, you *can* use that firearm for self-defence provided it's a legal self-defence scenario - the type of license does not dictate what you may do with it.)

Finally, make sure you train regularly, keep your skills sharp, and I suggest doing some 'tactical' training courses as well so that you're mentally ready to think quick etc. when the time comes.

You should be able to get some good bargains on 2nd-hand guns right now as a lot of people are stupidly giving up their guns or worryingly being forced to, plus the training providers are very quiet now, since they all had a big 'rush' up until March this year as that was the deadline for the re-licensing thingy. I'm not sure but in theory this should also help new applications be a bit smoother.

Get one now, there's no point waiting. And don't let the hysterical naysayers whinging about how it's "impossible" to get one (or that you'll be charged with murder if you use one in self-defence - this is also false) stop you or discourage you ... firstly it's far from impossible to get one, secondly, if anything, the harder "they" make it, the more determined we should be and the *harder* we should work to make *sure* we exercise our moral right to own a firearm - if you don't even try, "they" win by default (that's the metaphorical "they" - or not, you decide, but regardless, the point stands).
 
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And all of the above and re-licensing is going to miraculously stop them from stealing your firearm, using it in criminal activity, or lower the crime rate - or is it a senseless soft target revenue making racket?

[EDIT] the only difference I can see is many honest citizens would surrender their weapons to avoid the schlep of going through the re-licensing pain in the ass.

So much for the right to self defense. If you want to kill your partner you’ll have to use a steak knife or chainsaw from now on!
 
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