ANC and DA 2004 versus 2009

[Drake2007]

ANC and Democratic Alliance 2004 versus 2009

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2009/04/27/anc-and-democratic-alliance-2004-versus-2009/

Good comment on that

Here is the spider at the bottom of the ANC’s champagne glass.

It is not that the party failed to get their two thirds, much less a boasted 70%, from an overall vote that was slightly up on the 2004 Mbeki election. It is not that the DA won the Western Cape outright and that the newcomer Cope, despite the criticism, in fact performed remarkably well.

Something unquantifiable has slipped into SA’s politics and changed it maybe more than the numbers tell. Overnight it is hard to imagine the ANC governing again with the arrogance, much less the impunity, of the past; harder to see South Africans so generously overlooking crude nepotism in government a second time. Zuma has his supporters’ genuine devotion, but his brilliance did not carry this election: the ANC’s ancient claim to loyalty and greater resources did.

The excitement of the hustings is over, along with a final naive phase of fielding a score of one-man opposition parties: SA is moving into an era of hard-fought, professional politics.

The ANC under Zuma seems curiously vulnerable in this tough new world - as if for the first time the party that was sanctified to rule till Jesus comes again has actually been put on probation.

 

[Lydon]

The ANC has relied on supporter loyalty for votes for far too long. This election has been the first election in which new voters who never experienced Apartheid (they were at the most 4) have been able to vote. Apparently, according to a program I saw on TV, the majority of the 2 million new registered voters are young voters and only 30% of them voted for the ANC as opposed to 40% for the DA. I'm not sure on how they worked this out exactly, but if it's true then the ANC is going to have to get its act together.

As time passes by and, as morbid as it may sound, the oldest of ANC supporters die off and new voters begin signing up, I think we'll see a far more balanced political scene in South Africa. I for one am excited for the next elections as what we have seen this time around is proof that we are on our way to becoming a matured democracy.

 

[Gaz{M}]

I'm sorry, i don't share your optimism. The ANC still has > 60% of the voters blindly supporting them. Until other parties make massive efforts to convert rural voters, this is all just wishful thinking. Go to the rural areas and the small towns. Those people have never heard of COPE or the DA and if they have, they feel no affinity for the parties. The ANC is all they know and despite what you may think, the ANC has actually built houses and running water for these people.

I took a 3000km trip through the Eastern Cape, KZN and FS recently. Next to every little village and town I passed was rows and rows of RDP houses, all with electricity and water.

Why wouldn't these people vote for the ANC again and again? They don't ever see the shambles of urban life and government departments. They just wake up every day in a free house with free elec and free water and go about their simple lives.

 

[JungleBoy]

My personal feeling is that there is more scope for COPE to eat into the ANC's majority.
But for COPE to achieve that they have adopt a different aproach to that one adopted by the DA. As official opposition in the 3 provinces they can now concentrate on building organisational structures in those communities.
My personal feeling is that the DA just like the ANC might have reached the ceiling. I doubt that many voters would make a transition from ANC to DA hence COPE being the ideal middle ground.

 

[semiautomatix]

I'm sorry, i don't share your optimism. The ANC still has > 60% of the voters blindly supporting them. Until other parties make massive efforts to convert rural voters, this is all just wishful thinking. Go to the rural areas and the small towns. Those people have never heard of COPE or the DA and if they have, they feel no affinity for the parties. The ANC is all they know and despite what you may think, the ANC has actually built houses and running water for these people.

I took a 3000km trip through the Eastern Cape, KZN and FS recently. Next to every little village and town I passed was rows and rows of RDP houses, all with electricity and water.

Why wouldn't these people vote for the ANC again and again? They don't ever see the shambles of urban life and government departments. They just wake up every day in a free house with free elec and free water and go about their simple lives.

I see no problem with that, if the ANC has indeed delivered to these people, given them houses, water, electricity, sanitation and jobs then it has fulfilled its obligations as government. And that is really what we're attempting to do, hold the ANC accountable to its promises.

However, now it is the turn of the DA to build houses and so forth, so there will be a similar wave of support for that party.

It is the disillusioned voters who have had nothing but broken ANC promises and the new voters, those who will not benefit from the ANC's social welfare programmes that should be targeted for future elections.

 

[Arko2]

Hi all free

Free Houses,Water,Electric.,Sanitation, Wonder who is paying TAXES?
How about free Maintenance, not really a word from a African Dictionary.
How about getting Jobs , so the poor can afford it all.

 

[Nika]

I'm sorry, i don't share your optimism. The ANC still has > 60% of the voters blindly supporting them. Until other parties make massive efforts to convert rural voters, this is all just wishful thinking. Go to the rural areas and the small towns. Those people have never heard of COPE or the DA and if they have, they feel no affinity for the parties. The ANC is all they know and despite what you may think, the ANC has actually built houses and running water for these people.

I took a 3000km trip through the Eastern Cape, KZN and FS recently. Next to every little village and town I passed was rows and rows of RDP houses, all with electricity and water.

Why wouldn't these people vote for the ANC again and again? They don't ever see the shambles of urban life and government departments. They just wake up every day in a free house with free elec and free water and go about their simple lives.

And this is a bad thing?

 

[semiautomatix]

And this is a bad thing?

With only 10%-12% of the population as registered tax payers, it is not a very sustainable solution.

There are more important focus areas like jobs and education, so that people may contribute to this country and purchase their own house.

If my secretary can afford to buy a house then much of the earning population should be able to.

 

[Nika]

With only 10%-12% of the population as registered tax payers, it is not a very sustainable solution.

There are more important focus areas like jobs and education, so that people may contribute to this country and purchase their own house.

If my secretary can afford to buy a house then much of the earning population should be able to.

Yes maybe. Those are long term solutions. We need action NOW.

 

[semiautomatix]

Yes maybe. Those are long term solutions. We need action NOW.

Unfortunately action NOW does not solve the problem in the future. Had the ANC taken that stance 15 years ago we might be in much better position, but instead of attacking the cause the ruling party has decided to rather paint over the cracks and the ugly bits. This is still not sustainable and will cause massive problems in the future.

The ANC has never been very forward thinking and as such they will be unable to keep up the momentum on damaging this country for future generations. This has been exemplified by the Eskom incident and the condition of roads throughout this country.

Yes, continue to build houses but don't make it your biggest focus. Fix the cause of the problem and building houses no longer becomes necessary.

 

[JungleBoy]

With only 10%-12% of the population as registered tax payers, it is not a very sustainable solution.

There are more important focus areas like jobs and education, so that people may contribute to this country and purchase their own house.

If my secretary can afford to buy a house then much of the earning population should be able to.

Basic housing, health care, safety and security, education, etc are rights that are guaranteed by our constitution in the bill of rights.
I somehow do not think that you can get away with ranking rights in such a way that some rights supersede others.

 

[semiautomatix]

Basic housing, health care, safety and security, education, etc are rights that are guaranteed by our constitution in the bill of rights.
I somehow do not think that you can get away with ranking rights in such a way that some rights supersede others.

You would if you value this country, there is a very big chain of cause and effect. Effectively by putting too much into building houses you leave a broken future for this country. The ANC does not understand this logic and only seems to be concerned with the here and now.

Better education -> more jobs -> more tax money -> better welfare for less people (especially those who need it) -> building houses

So by focussing mainly on education, you are indeed focussing even more on building houses (at a future date).

This country should all be wealthy enough to sustain themselves; except for the invalid, too young and too frail - they should be the beneficiaries of welfare. However by handing too much on a silver platter and now focussing on key areas you build a welfare dependant country that cannot sustain itself. It is in the interests of all South Africans to focus on key root areas, namely the cause, rather than treating the symptoms.

 

[JungleBoy]

You would if you value this country, there is a very big chain of cause and effect. Effectively by putting too much into building houses you leave a broken future for this country. The ANC does not understand this logic and only seems to be concerned with the here and now.

Better education -> more jobs -> more tax money -> better welfare for less people (especially those who need it) -> building houses

So by focussing mainly on education, you are indeed focussing even more on building houses (at a future date).

This country should all be wealthy enough to sustain themselves; except for the invalid, too young and too frail - they should be the beneficiaries of welfare. However by handing too much on a silver platter and now focussing on key areas you build a welfare dependant country that cannot sustain itself. It is in the interests of all South Africans to focus on key root areas, namely the cause, rather than treating the symptoms.

before you indulge yourself in diatribe it would be worth your while to analyse the national budget...i.e. what percentage is spent on education compared to housing.
R105.5-billion for 2007/8 financial year allocated to education
R8.2-billion for 2007/8 financial year allocated to provinces for housing

 

[rorz0r]

It's almost like to make a better informed decision those voters who know nothing but ANC need to have that option taken away from them. By the ANC merely existing it keeps these people in the past.

 

[semiautomatix]

before you indulge yourself in diatribe it would be worth your while to analyse the national budget...i.e. what percentage is spent on education compared to housing.
R105.5-billion for 2007/8 financial year allocated to education
R8.2-billion for 2007/8 financial year allocated to provinces for housing

I don't know where you got your figures, but they're very wrong. Each province only have R900-million to run the department and build houses?

The figure for 2009/2010 is R73.2 bn - that's up from R64.5 bn for 2008/2009.

A link: http://www.pwc.com/extweb/service.nsf/docid/189284ED649508CF802573E200394F07

So yes, it is half of education, but education is still suffering and still requires more. That R140 bn has been incapable of even purchasing simple items like textbooks and desks in many schools.

In fact, the eduction budget has been increased by a measly R1.4bn; yet housing has increased by R8.7bn in this latest budget. This shows where the focus is, and this is the wrong area.

 

[JungleBoy]

I don't know where you got your figures, but they're very wrong. Each province only have R900-million to run the department and build houses?

The figure for 2009/2010 is R73.2 bn - that's up from R64.5 bn for 2008/2009.

A link: http://www.pwc.com/extweb/service.nsf/docid/189284ED649508CF802573E200394F07

So yes, it is half of education, but education is still suffering and still requires more. That R140 bn has been incapable of even purchasing simple items like textbooks and desks in many school.s

Even if it was 3/4 of the education budget, the fact remains that gvt has put more emphasis on education.

 

[semiautomatix]

Even if it was 3/4 of the education budget, the fact remains that gvt has put more emphasis on education.

In fact, the eduction budget has been increased by a measly R1.4bn; yet housing has increased by R8.7bn in this latest budget. This shows where the focus is, and this is the wrong area.

All this despite the fact that kids don't have textbooks or desks in many schools.

 

[JungleBoy]

In fact, the eduction budget has been increased by a measly R1.4bn; yet housing has increased by R8.7bn in this latest budget. This shows where the focus is, and this is the wrong area.

All this despite the fact that kids don't have textbooks or desks in many schools.

A lot of the problems experienced at schools are not due to shortage of funds, in fact there's been inadequate service delivery in almost all gvt departments. They have been underspending. Throwing more money into the problem will not speed up service delivery. The one thing that is bound to happen is more corruption and embezzlement of unspent funds.

 

[semiautomatix]

A lot of the problems experienced at schools are not due to shortage of funds, in fact there's been inadequate service delivery in almost all gvt departments. They have been underspending. Throwing more money into the problem will not speed up service delivery. The one thing that is bound to happen is more corruption and embezzlement of unspent funds.

Well once again we're back onto the problem of government not focussing on education. If it were so important those departments would be held accountable for their lack of delivery. So correct, throwing money at the problem doesn't always work, but the crux of the argument still stands. The kids need to get educated and the government really needs to intervene to ensure this happens.

I fear they are canvassing votes for the last year by an increased focus on housing, something they avoided before that, at the expense of other departments.

The situation is unacceptable and the ANC led government is too blame. As I've said, better education will decrease welfare dependency. What would propose should be done?

 

[capetownguy]

Like housing, everybody claims there is shortage of funds.

R10 billion thrown at a contractor who has never built homes before and is on the brink of bankruptcy does not result in homes.

Underspending and poor delivery are the key issues in many cases.
This is why many blindly blame 2010 or any other expenditure for poor delivery,thinking its funding problem, when it is in fact a case of poor delivery and persistent underspending.\

The education funds as a % of our budget remains amongst the highest in the world but that doesnt matter if textbooks are sitting in a warehouse, because the delivery company who won the tender have no vehicles.