"ANC implementing reverse apartheid": Maimane

Mike Hoxbig said:
I don't think it's just that. There seems to be a very strong anti-black rhetoric coming out of them in recent months. And ff redressing past inequalities is really an issue, why do they need to bring in Cuban engineers?
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Because they not white.

O wait, no that can't be it...
 
cr@zydude said:
Two issues, so let's deal with them separately.

BEE and AA are discrimination, but do not cause anywhere near the level of hardship as was experienced under Apartheid. Musi calling the two policies the same feels disingenuous to me.
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Given enough time BEE will do enough damage to considerably damage the white population. But look at it like this, if you're a poor white person in South Africa now, you are truly and absolutely ****d. No kidding, every single policy is against you, you'll have almost no chance of getting bursaries for further education due to BEE (I know personally how hard it is to get a bursary if you're white and have a great academic record), you have absolutely no chance of working for the state or any real government position. You're absolutely fcked. Compared to that, poor black south africans have HUGE amounts of bursary opportunities and upliftment programs. I'll say it again, if you're poor and white you're absolutely fcked in this country and those that support that policy seriously need to consider what they're supporting.

Something else also needs to be said about BEE and transformation. I support helping poor people through education etc initiatives but there has been a consistent attempt by all kinds of black organizations to misuse the word 'transformation' as a means to bash whites. Some of them are pure, rotten to the core, racists using the unique package called 'transformation' to justify their evil. They gave it a nice name, BEE, transformation.
You know, that's been done before, had a nice ring to it, it was called 'separate development'.
 
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Edwe said:
It sounds to me like you are arguing semantics rather than principle.

One group of you (incl. Pitbull) is sticking to the strict definition (which you get if you google define: apartheid), i.e. " a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race". The other group is lumping racial segregation together with other atrocities committed by the NP and calling that Apartheid collectively.

We all agree that Apartheid-era government was terrible and that loads of people suffered terribly as a result.

You cannot, however, deny the fact that the current ANC government legally classifies races and discriminates against certain races based on these classifications using laws (in an attempt to rectify imbalances caused by the old government). In the strict, formal definition sense, this too is "Apartheid", but calling it thus evokes a natural, emotional response beyond the formal definition of the word, because of its other connotations.

TL;DR version: strictly speaking, and formally defined, it is "reverse Apartheid", but calling it thus is really insensitive because of other connotations of the word. So IMHO, Maimane is correct, in a strict sense, but an insensitive ass for the way he phrases it.

EDIT: seems like OD sort of beat me to what I was trying to say.
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Perhaps he was simply politicking... by deliberately evoking said emotions?
 
Albereth said:
The pencil test is a time honoured and scientifically acceptable means to determine if boobs are too small or too droopy.
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Now you want to bring gender into the argument as well.
 
R13... said:
People don't realise that even if you limit it to employment, apartheid completely banned certain races from certain professions. They couldn't apply for the jobs, they couldn't study toward those areas of study. Apartheid only allowed races to practice professions which could be practised only in that person's race (at the bottom of the race rung anyway).
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The legislation was more along the lines that a person could practice in certain areas. So a black lawyer couldn't practice in a white area and so on. That is why there were still universities like Fort Hare, and why people like Mandela went to Wits to study law.
 
konfab said:
The legislation was more along the lines that a person could practice in certain areas. So a black lawyer couldn't practice in a white area and so on. That is why there were still universities like Fort Hare, and why people like Mandela went to Wits to study law.
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I was referring to the fact that black people could not enter the trades and certain other professions.
 
R13... said:
Let's hear more on the Yes answers
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Shame. It must be difficult to live your way.

The problems with Escom is because those dumb white engineers were replaced by much better qualified cadres.

While municipalities used to have well qualified people as town clerks they were replaced by much better qualified cadres as municipal managers thus our excellent local services.

The only whites who are sure of part of the black elite's approval are teachers, lawyers, pilots and doctors. They don't trust their own appointed cadres.
 
cr@zydude said:
Discrimination was a small part of Apartheid. AA and BEE are much smaller 'wrongs', which hurt far fewer people, and are designed to help those who were hurt by a much larger, much worse system.
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Soaring energy costs, load-shedding and high communication and transportation costs, to name but a few.
Thank you, "Not-Reverse Apartheid" government policies of AA and BEE, for causing incompetent, inadequately educated people to be placed in critical positions. As for hurting "more" or "less" people, everyone (who isn't a deployed cadre) is being hurt by the effects of the Not-Reverse Apartheid policies.
 
R13... said:
I was referring to the fact that black people could not enter the trades and certain other professions.
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Good luck at becoming a pilot working in SA as a white person. Affirmative action did not take into account population growth and ratios. The amount of positions in certain profession don't always grow with the population, that means your left with ridiculous chances of getting into certain professions even if you excelled in the academic requirements.
 
R13... said:
I was referring to the fact that black people could not enter the trades and certain other professions.
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Like what? Apart from the government controlled ones, they could do whatever they wanted in their areas (of course it was convenient that there was little to do of value in the areas that they were allowed).

Which again highlights the comparison of the ANC with apartheid, there is nothing stopping a colored person from getting qualified, it is just a pity that if the quota is full you don't get the government job.
From that point of view there is very little difference.
 
Maimane's reverse apartheid comments aside, you have to love how some people (because what happened in the past and now the present aren't the exact same thing in reverse) are like...

495491-boy-with-fingers-inb-ears.jpg


Your gripe does not meet x,y,z criteria if we compare from the past and so therefore you have no argument!


As for the ANC having good intentions etc. I just shake my head in disbelief.
 
cr@zydude said:
Discrimination was a small part of Apartheid. AA and BEE are much smaller 'wrongs', which hurt far fewer people, and are designed to help those who were hurt by a much larger, much worse system.
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Can you please just listen to yourself? Ok let me get this straight so it's fine that I get hurt by BEE and AA and the guy next to me gets benefited because he was hurt by a worse system then I was, but I was not even involved in that system? You are right it is not Reverse Apartheid it is just plain Apartheid not to mention Racist.
 
Werner Harding said:
Can you please just listen to yourself? Ok let me get this straight so it's fine that I get hurt by BEE and AA and the guy next to me gets benefited because he was hurt by a worse system then I was, but I was not even involved in that system? You are right it is not Reverse Apartheid it is just plain Apartheid not to mention Racist.
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Also, remember that these policies hurt far fewer people. The people currently being negatively affected are the minority so that's a good thing. Because it's fewer people! So that means less, which in turn means less bad. Which is good! :rolleyes:
 
Getafix said:
In the white areas.
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The bantu building act of 1951 for example is one example. It was a criminal act for a black person to perform skilled work outside "black" areas meaning that the only trades allowed them were plumbing, carpentry, motor mechanic, etc which made clear that they could not attain or study for the other artisan trades used in industry as they were only allowed to learn the "skills" needed by black people. For example, why would a black person need to be an engineer in such instances? The old technical colleges in "black:" areas for example only offered a list of government "approved" black trades and none of them offered anything useful in industry.

There is a long list of apartheid laws that make clear that Mmusi's comment is idiot at the most generous interpretation. Now if he wanted to make an impact he might have said something along the lines of redefining the ANC's triple challenges into something like economy, fighting graft, and rebuilding state institutions to capacitate the police and others to fight crime effectively. But no, he needs to dumb it down to the EFF level type to appeal to some populist logic. I can just imagine Zille's facepalm reading that.
 
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