ANCYL trashes toilets

capd said:
And more people now have the opportunity to be taught how to fish than ever before.

Previously they were not allowed to be taught how to fish.
Click to expand...

And your point is?

We were talking about people taking responsibility for their own lives and not to demand every thing from the Government.

I would be happy if these people said please come and teach us, but no all they can do is to demand and they do not want to lift a finger to better their own situation.
 
Last edited:
capd said:
Because it would have been easier for them to become civilized and afford these "luxuries" liek a concrete toilet if they were given the opportunity longer ago.
Click to expand...

Well yes, history acknowledges that they weren't ( although the richest South African is black, but that's another story ) - but that as they say is history.

Does that now mean they must get a free pass - or free everything ?

You earn or pay for something, you look after and value it.

Get it free and it has no worth - even little kids know that.
 
capd said:
I understand the anger. I am angry too. It's jsut a lot of the anger is conveyed in an unthoughtful way.

What do you feel about that statement? I feel that on the basis a world class city like Cape Town surrounds them, the city really skimped on them when not building enclosures in the first place.
Click to expand...

No matter who runs an area, they will always have standoffs with the communities involved and the problem is not ever going to disappear...

Background to upgrading initiatives in Cape Town
In light of a national policy void on informal settlements, and the failure of the housing
programme to keep up with informal settlement growth, local governments have been forced
to fund and implement ad hoc servicing projects to address the urgent service needs of these
areas (Pottie, 2003). Policy documents reveal that officials in the Western Cape have long
since realised that the provision of subsidised formal housing would never eliminate the
housing backlog or eradicate informal settlements in the city, and hence incremental
upgrading is presented as a pragmatic response to the scale of the informal settlement
problem (WCHC, 2002; WCDOH, 2003; WCDOH, 2004; City of Cape Town, 2003; City of
Cape Town, 2004a; 2004b).

The constraint labelled by officials as ‘community politics’ refers to disagreements between
the City and the community leaders over levels of service and location of services, claimed by
residents to be the result of a lack of consultation.

A striking feature of the ESIS Project was
how many disruptions were caused by disputes over opportunities and payment for casual
employment of settlement residents during the installation of services. The universal
expectation that any manual labour involved in upgrading must be recruited from the
settlement involved has become an accepted feature of state projects across South Africa.
Residents in a number of settlements were willing to disrupt the ESIS Project and sacrifice the
benefit of basic services in order to get jobs, or to be paid more for these jobs.

This phenomenon would seem to indicate that the employment potential of the ESIS Project was
seen by residents to be more important than the services themselves. There is thus an
interesting shift in emphasis from the residents’ perspective with their primary demand for
basic services being superseded by the demand for jobs, at least in the short-term, which
may have implications for the form and viability of future projects.

The City acknowledges that a lack of data and knowledge around livelihoods strategies, incomes and affordability levels in
informal settlements affects the appropriateness and sustainability of their interventions. It
aims to address these issues through socio-economic surveys in upcoming upgrading
projects.

http://web.wits.ac.za/NR/rdonlyres/0232342F-EB6B-4D8D-8849-7EDABD07663A/0/NickGraham.pdf
Click to expand...
 
capd said:
Unlucky. Not sure where you are but what are the circumstances and what have you done about it?
Click to expand...

I sure as s**t haven't gone and destroyed what little road there appears to be left in protest.
 
capd said:
Because it would have been easier for them to become civilized and afford these "luxuries" liek a concrete toilet if they were given the opportunity longer ago.
Click to expand...
Lazy Lowlifes will keep blaming apartheid for ever, the dumb perpetual strugglers.

They welcome upliftment, only if it doesn't involve work on their part.
 
capd said:
Due to its poor implementation. There may be just as many poor maids, gardeners and manual labourers (especially true with the rate at which the poor reproduce), but they mostly have better housing, water and electricity and access to other services, better trransport, access to hospitals, ARVs, etc.
Click to expand...

Absolute hogwash! There is no way this form of discrimination could have a good implementation. A country's strength is in it's economy. Had the ANC allowed things to run their natural course there would be far more money to create far more jobs leading to far more houses, running water and well-provisioned hospitals. You cannot grow an economy by insisting companies don't use the best man for the job. It's a window dressing system, at best, regardless of how well it it implemented.
 
capd said:
And more people now have the opportunity to be taught how to fish than ever before.

Previously they were not allowed to be taught how to fish.
Click to expand...

Of course, knowing how to fish and then expecting someone to bring you fish is not solving the problem.
 
BBSA said:
And your point is?

We were talking about people taking responsibility for their own lives and not to demand every thing from the Government.

I would be happy if these people said please come and teach us, but no all they can do is to demand and they do not want to lift a finger to better their own situation.
Click to expand...

No we were talking about more people having a better live today than they had in 1994.

You still don't understand that because of the past's deepset injustices it is harder for a poor black previously disadvantaged person and especially a poor one to take responsibility to improve their lives.

They obviously lack ambition because they still suffer from the injustices of the past.
 
daveza said:
Well yes, history acknowledges that they weren't ( although the richest South African is black, but that's another story ) - but that as they say is history.

Does that now mean they must get a free pass - or free everything ?

You earn or pay for something, you look after and value it.

Get it free and it has no worth - even little kids know that.
Click to expand...

History affects the present. One generation not being given opportunity pre 1994 stuffs up the chances of any further generations that that generation produces in 2010 and beyond.
 
Frankie said:
Lazy Lowlifes will keep blaming apartheid for ever, the dumb perpetual strugglers.

They welcome upliftment, only if it doesn't involve work on their part.
Click to expand...

It has much more to do with their skin colour only allowing them to achieve a limited amount in life because of injustices and predjudices from the past when they weren't even alive.

You deny that Apartheid affects today's offspring of previously disadvantaged, previous generations that were prevented from advancing?
 
phaktza said:
Absolute hogwash! There is no way this form of discrimination could have a good implementation. A country's strength is in it's economy. Had the ANC allowed things to run their natural course there would be far more money to create far more jobs leading to far more houses, running water and well-provisioned hospitals. You cannot grow an economy by insisting companies don't use the best man for the job. It's a window dressing system, at best, regardless of how well it it implemented.
Click to expand...

If the ANC did that we would still be in Apartheid.

A country's strength is in its economy. Yet Apartheid only allowed us whites to participate. Transformation and reconciliation involves allowing more than just us whites to play.
 
capd said:
No we were talking about more people having a better live today than they had in 1994.
Click to expand...

Noncense, please show me where I said that.

capd said:
You still don't understand that because of the past's deepset injustices it is harder for a poor black previously disadvantaged person and especially a poor one to take responsibility to improve their lives.

They obviously lack ambition because they still suffer from the injustices of the past.
Click to expand...

It is one thing to understand that but is is another thing to do something about it. Learn them to take responsibility for their own lives will actually help them. I can promise you they will feel much better about themselves once they have done that.

Begging for everything is not going to help their self esteem.
 
Last edited:
phaktza said:
Er... that's my point. Sometimes they're slow and tedious, it's been over 8 years and I'm still not burning down any libraries.
Click to expand...

Now try living 8 years in a squatter camp and putting up with it.

And one of the non-violent avenues was used to an extent when according to the article the community got together on Sunday and decided they would not accept the metal enclosures.
 
There is no doubt apartheid will still have an effect, no one is denying that. What we are saying is the government is wasting billions of rands on BS like cars, arms, tenders. That could be used towards education and helping the poor with housing, toilets etc.

You sad the black folk in this country are better off than they were under the old government and while that is very true for a minority the majority are no better off. I think they may be worse off with 5 million zims taking their jobs.

Once again as i have pointed out they will vote ANC every election even though they live very poor conditions, people keeping blaming apartheid which puzzles me. It has been 2 decades and if anything the poor are still getting Fed badly. Their government is doing sweet F all to help and the only answer is apartheid is the reason we are corrupt.

Go look all over africa, go look at poverty and come tell me why majority of africa live in poverty? Corrupt government. So don't come with the BS that the poor are better off under the black government. Just because they are free to move and do what they like does not mean they are not dirt poor with no real chance of making anything for themselves or their children. If anything it must be harder for them to see their own kind treat them as badly as the racist white man did.

Capd read this, it will enlighten you a bit i think, very good article on the topic and hits the nail on the head.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8215083.stm

You are fighting a good fight i reckon but your thinking tends to lean towards blame the past and not cause. Very good one here as well http://allafrica.com/stories/201003161060.html

http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/politics/stop_blaming_apartheid_for_corruption_.html

Open your eyes capd because boy you seem blind to problems plaguing africa and want to place blame on the past more than the current.
 
Last edited:
capd said:
the community got together on Sunday and decided they would not accept the metal enclosures.
Click to expand...

When what they had agreed to previously was.....

In discussing the project with the community, the project manager agreed to stretch the budget so that each family could have its own toilet. This could be achieved by allocating all of the project's sanitation funds to providing as many toilets as possible, while families agreed to construct their own enclosures.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X