Android dominates Apple, eats into mobile market

[chris_meier]

The quality is what matters.

Couldn't agree more. I bought a few when I first got my tablet, and a few more when I got my phone (specifically ones that weren't universal), then it went quiet for a while as I settled into a proper usage pattern on my devices. It picked up now a bit as I discovered better quality apps suited to what I needed, and a few new additions for changed usage trends.

I don't know about the other App stores, but the Apple store needs some serious housekeeping in terms of clearing out the "abandon-ware".

 

[BeVonk!]

I don't know about the other App stores, but the Apple store needs some serious housekeeping in terms of clearing out the "abandon-ware".

There should be an option to click on an abandon button for apps already downloaded/purchased to provide stats to the app stores of apps that has fallen into disuse. Deleting them feom devices don't count as abandoned (still in your online apps list for re-download). So much rubbish all over the place and I find the user ratings to be a farce. I suspect people rate too quickly. Longer term use/own ratings should also be used. Two ratings. I want quality and will settle for far fewer apps in the store if quality is truly evaluated and selection very stringent. Even Apple should up their qualification criteria.

 

[Biscuit1018]

Nexus4 looks great; I'm seriously making plans to get one. In fact the Nexus devices are pretty much coming to dominate the face of Android. Nexus7 is the best 7 incher, Nexus10 is the best 10 incher, and Nexus4 is.. well if not the best, at least the best priced smartphone on the market for the specifications.

Nexus 4 does look great and the only Android phone I would consider (Stock Android, larger screen, good, solid build).

Real bugger not being able to acquire them easily in SA.
I can live with them not being subsidised on a contract (although that limits them)

Any idea how to buy them Over the Counter in SA?

I could do it two ways
a) Wait till I go to the UK next (go 2x in our colder months each year)
b) Order it online in the US and send it to my virtual post box there where it can be forwarded to SA via courier - the only bugger here is that I either need to get a US mate to place the order or I need to VPN. The geographic restrictions dont even let one get to the store.
Of course its out of stock so academic.

If I order from USA is there anything compatibility wise that I need to be careful of?

At $300 (for the 8GB, how much for the 16GB?) it is a bargain
Maybe I will get the Nexus 4 and treat it as an experiment?

It is ironic that this is the 1st time I am seriously considering Android and both Google and the SA networks are making it hard for me.


Or I can get the iPhone 5?

 

[Biscuit1018]

My spending on apps have come down substantially, and more specifically after I jumped from iPad to Android tablets. I own a truckload of apps on iOS, mostly bought out of curiosity and never used. With Android most of the stuff I actually need is free. I bought things like Tapatalk and Touchdown on Android but very little else. One gets over the app buying craving on any of the platforms after a while a realise you actually need a few things on an ongoing basis. That is why I am of the opinion that with a small app store but with high quality must-have apps a player like RIM still has a future (and may cause a few surprises/upsets). In the end one need very few apps to make good use of a tablet/phone. The quality is what matters.

Is it your migration that changed your spending habits or is it the fact that you have become a more mature tablet user?
OK you are kinda conceding the latter.

 

[Biscuit1018]

There should be an option to click on an abandon button for apps already downloaded/purchased to provide stats to the app stores of apps that has fallen into disuse. Deleting them feom devices don't count as abandoned (still in your online apps list for re-download). So much rubbish all over the place and I find the user ratings to be a farce. I suspect people rate too quickly. Longer term use/own ratings should also be used. Two ratings. I want quality and will settle for far fewer apps in the store if quality is truly evaluated and selection very stringent. Even Apple should up their qualification criteria.

I agree generally.
There is a way to 'hide' purchased Apps on the OSX App Store.

On iOS / Itunes its a bit trickier but possible
- If delete it from Itunes & the device/s then its basically gone BUT
- If you are like me and have many devices on the same Itunes account AND you forget to delete it off one of the devices then you get the option if you want to upload from the device back to Itunes... and you start all over again

Its not that difficult but still a bit of a kludge
The 'Abandon' button on the device is a good idea although in my case it would then delete it off many devices so one would need to ensure password is entered before abandoning

 

[Biscuit1018]

Just out of interest, I'd like to hear what everyone's average monthly spend is within the respective App stores (Google, Amazon & Apple). We know that Amazon had good revenue growth in Q3, but still had an operating loss (ignoring the net income loss), and are cautious about Q4 (good revenue again, but they aren't sure if they'll have an operating income loss or profit - but this also encompasses their vast catalogue, they don't always give specifics.

I'm not looking for show boating and inter-device flaming - be mature and just give an idea of how much you spend, on average, in the relevant App store.

For me, it varies between R60-R100 per month, but that is just Apps. I only buy music occasionally (because I don't listen to a lot of music - not because I get it, ahem, elsewhere), and I haven't ventured into buying or renting TV Shows and Movies yet.

Its a good question
I am on the Apple US Appstore

My purchases are
- Apps - Not that much. Occasional game or productivity App. Educational Apps for the kids. Say R50-R60 a month (Across the family). Sometimes more, usually less.

- Content - Different story - This is climbing rapidly - I rent movies. I buy the odd movie and TV show. ABout R100-R200 a month
Buy the odd bit of music as well. I have Apple TV boxes and it really is seamless. The real test is "Can my wife and kids do it without involving me?"

I could drop DSTV if it wasnt for the kids programs and news. Sport I watch in pubs (apart from early morning cricket in Australia, my pub doesnt like opening at 3am, inconsiderate bastards).
I need to look at a different bouquet. But I won't.

I used to be a bit naughty with TV shows etc and acquire them 'differently'.
But the combination of seamless usage and US clampdowns on filehosting sites have made me 'go legal'
Shows you that reasonable prices plus easily accessible content at the right time makes people behave more ethically.
Of course one has to, at this time, still be in the US (or Kenya).
Fortunately I have a business address there so not a biggie. But it is a biggie for most.

The sooner Apple, Amazon and Google open up proper content stores in SA the better.
I guarantee the studios and music companies will increase revenue over time.
The trouble is that companies own distribution rights in SA and those companies want us to buy DVDs, CDs and worse still wait a significant period after something is released in the USA. My pet peeve. I am happy to pay but I want to choose when I watch something and the device I watch it on (tablet, phone, ipod, computer or TV). I dont want someone deciding I must have the physical media or that I should wait.

 

[cerebus]

My spending on apps have come down substantially, and more specifically after I jumped from iPad to Android tablets. I own a truckload of apps on iOS, mostly bought out of curiosity and never used. With Android most of the stuff I actually need is free. I bought things like Tapatalk and Touchdown on Android but very little else. One gets over the app buying craving on any of the platforms after a while a realise you actually need a few things on an ongoing basis. That is why I am of the opinion that with a small app store but with high quality must-have apps a player like RIM still has a future (and may cause a few surprises/upsets). In the end one need very few apps to make good use of a tablet/phone. The quality is what matters.

That kind of depends on your use. If you play a lot of games then you need a constant supply of decent discoverable games. If you have a particular professional interest like coding or design or word processing, or just anything really, you're going to also want to be finding new apps in your field. If you've resigned to e-mail, Twitter, surfing, movie watching, Dropbox and Evernote, then sure.

 

[Biscuit1018]

What do you mean eventually?
Android already has over 70% of the market share, It is "winning", not "going to win". The market is already flooded, hell my maid just got a new Samsung Galaxy Pocket. Go try that with iOS.

Winning what? What match are we watching?
In numbers iOS is never going to beat Android but that isnt necessarily the battle that Apple is fighting.
Google wants numbers because every google search, maps etc can yield them profit.
Google doesnt need to worry that only one of their partners makes proper money from Android phones (Samsung).
And I would venture to guess that even that one makes its money from the S3, Notes etc.

Apple doesn't play in the low margin, budget phones market.

There is no question that Samsung are now and have been for a bit a real competitor for Apple.

However to talk about a winning battle we need to first decide what battle we are talking about
- iOS developers make more money than Android developers (for the same App) - Just to demonstrate I am not just talking about Apple's profits which are huge.
- The churn from iOS to Android remains low although Android are acquiring an overwhelmingly higher % of the new smartphone buyers

The big risk for Apple imho is that they may fail to take the next big step.
- They changed the music game with the iPod
- They changed the smartphone game with the iPhone and have now been caught up (close to, equal or overtaken who cares)
- They changed the tablet game and now they have others nipping at their heels

Note (before anyone has a go at me). I said they 'changed' the game. I am not going down the road of claiming invention because that just starts a juvenile debate.

What is the next big thing? SOmething that changes the ecosystem battle again?
I believe it has to be something to do with TV?
This time I dont think anyone will get the jump on the other quite so much.

Maybe Apple will acquire Sony? Doubt it though.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Its a good question
I am on the Apple US Appstore

My purchases are
- Apps - Not that much. Occasional game or productivity App. Educational Apps for the kids. Say R50-R60 a month (Across the family). Sometimes more, usually less.

- Content - Different story - This is climbing rapidly - I rent movies. I buy the odd movie and TV show. ABout R100-R200 a month
Buy the odd bit of music as well. I have Apple TV boxes and it really is seamless. The real test is "Can my wife and kids do it without involving me?"

I could drop DSTV if it wasnt for the kids programs and news. Sport I watch in pubs (apart from early morning cricket in Australia, my pub doesnt like opening at 3am, inconsiderate bastards).
I need to look at a different bouquet. But I won't.

I used to be a bit naughty with TV shows etc and acquire them 'differently'.
But the combination of seamless usage and US clampdowns on filehosting sites have made me 'go legal'
Shows you that reasonable prices plus easily accessible content at the right time makes people behave more ethically.
Of course one has to, at this time, still be in the US (or Kenya).
Fortunately I have a business address there so not a biggie. But it is a biggie for most.

The sooner Apple, Amazon and Google open up proper content stores in SA the better.
I guarantee the studios and music companies will increase revenue over time.
The trouble is that companies own distribution rights in SA and those companies want us to buy DVDs, CDs and worse still wait a significant period after something is released in the USA. My pet peeve. I am happy to pay but I want to choose when I watch something and the device I watch it on (tablet, phone, ipod, computer or TV). I dont want someone deciding I must have the physical media or that I should wait.

You make it sound asif Apple allowed you to buy content legally <--- This is not the case.

All you doing is swapping a civil crime (Punishable by fines) to a criminal crime (Punishable by jail-time)
Go ask SARS if they happy with the fact that you "importing" goods without giving them their share.

 

[Biscuit1018]

You make it sound asif Apple allowed you to buy content legally <--- This is not the case.

All you doing is swapping a civil crime (Punishable by fines) to a criminal crime (Punishable by jail-time)
Go ask SARS if they happy with the fact that you "importing" goods without giving them their share.

It is legal if you declare your import and pay your VAT.
Quite simple to do actually.
If you buy software online from a website you have the same conundrum.
Technically one just has to declare the import and pay the VAT.
Costs about R250 per year.

You make it sound like its better to steal software and pay nothing.
The guys that are really upset are the people that own the distribution channel in SA (Gallo etc.)

 

[AlphaJohn]

It is legal if you declare your import and pay your VAT.
Quite simple to do actually.
If you buy software online from a website you have the same conundrum.
Technically one just has to declare the import and pay the VAT.
Costs about R250 per year.

So you declaring your "goods", I take it you also submit them for ratings? Or how do you get past the FPB's section?

You make it sound like its better to steal software and pay nothing.
The guys that are really upset

Erm its not theft, so you steal nothing. You simply copy data wich in turn get covered by copyright law. In South Africa our copyright act allows you to copy for evaluation and research.

Simply put. If you break copyright only the copyright holder or proxy can take you to court and worse case you can get fined if found in breach of that.
Fraud and tax evasion on the other hand is a criminal offense, one that is pursued by the government and if found guilty can lead to jail-time and a criminal record.

Not saying either will ever happen, but if it ever did, I would much rather face a fine than jail time and a criminal record.

Edit: We are venturing off topic, all I just want to do is point out that going Apple and its eco-system doesn't automatically make you legal. You can break the same laws and install Market Enabler on your Android device to purchase the content not allowed in SA.

 

[Biscuit1018]

So you declaring your "goods", I take it you also submit them for ratings? Or how do you get past the FPB's section?



Erm its not theft, so you steal nothing. You simply copy data wich in turn get covered by copyright law. In South Africa our copyright act allows you to copy for evaluation and research.

Simply put. If you break copyright only the copyright holder or proxy can take you to court and worse case you can get fined if found in breach of that.
Fraud and tax evasion on the other hand is a criminal offense, one that is pursued by the government and if found guilty can lead to jail-time and a criminal record.

Not saying either will ever happen, but if it ever did, I would much rather face a fine than jail time and a criminal record.

Ok, your question was about tax not FPB (which is independent) and nothing to do with SARS.
Its the same as bringing in a DVD in your suitcase.
If you are above the duty free allowance you have to declare it for tax.

SARS want their share period. If you were a hitman they want to tax your illegal work earnings. If you pay your tax you can go to jail for your hits but SARS wont prosecute for tax. In fact SARS wont even hand over information about your earnings to the police or prosecutor.

I have answered the tax question.

But if you torrent in some video that is also not subject to the FPB? So why bring the FPB into it?
I am amazed you take the moral high ground that it is better to pirate and pay nothing than it is to pay, declare to SARS but dont check the FPB ratings.
Even if SARS dont get their cut it is still more moral to pay the artists than it is to pirate.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Ok, your question was about tax not FPB (which is independent) and nothing to do with SARS.
Its the same as bringing in a DVD in your suitcase.
If you are above the duty free allowance you have to declare it for tax.

SARS want their share period. If you were a hitman they want to tax your illegal work earnings. If you pay your tax you can go to jail for your hits but SARS wont prosecute for tax. In fact SARS wont even hand over information about your earnings to the police or prosecutor.

I have answered the tax question.

But if you torrent in some video that is also not subject to the FPB? So why bring the FPB into it?
I am amazed you take the moral high ground that it is better to pirate and pay nothing than it is to pay, declare to SARS but dont check the FPB ratings.
Even if SARS dont get their cut it is still more moral to pay the artists than it is to pirate.

I am not the one taking the moral high-ground, its what SA law states is the lesser of the 2 evils. They decided for me.

As for bringing FPB into the conversation, its also a government agency following government laws and giving fals information to bypass said acts still form part of the general fraud debate.

 

[cerebus]

I am not the one taking the moral high-ground, its what SA law states is the lesser of the 2 evils. They decided for me.

As for bringing FPB into the conversation, its also a government agency following government laws and giving fals information to bypass said acts still form part of the general fraud debate.

The only general fraud debate that exists is on this thread. Unless SARS has issued any cease and desists to overseas app store purchasers recently and I'm just not aware of it.

 

[AlphaJohn]

The only general fraud debate that exists is on this thread. Unless SARS has issued any cease and desists to overseas app store purchasers recently and I'm just not aware of it.

That is like saying I can break the law till they catch me. Cool, so now that I know this I can transfer money out of the country till I get a cease and desists.

 

[Biscuit1018]

I am not the one taking the moral high-ground, its what SA law states is the lesser of the 2 evils. They decided for me.

As for bringing FPB into the conversation, its also a government agency following government laws and giving fals information to bypass said acts still form part of the general fraud debate.

From a FPB perspective
- Being in possession of a torrented video
- Being in possession of the same paid for, imported video

is identical.
So your torrent and my import both skipped the FPB
So irrelevant to this debate

As for the so called consequences
- If you declare your import you are in the clear with SARS and the artists have no axe to grind with you
- If you torrent then there are SA bodies that can have a go at you

I am hoping this all becomes academic soon.
I am totally happy to pay 14% VAT.

Lets see who brings online content to SA 1st.
If it was Google that may make me cut over to Android.

The rumours are out there about Apple Store in SA.
I hope they are true

 

[cerebus]

That is like saying I can break the law till they catch me. Cool, so now that I know this I can transfer money out of the country till I get a cease and desists.

Lol ok, well let's just agree that this is your personal bugbear and yes Apple have really failed in not bringing the full app store to South Africa and it sucks.

 

[Biscuit1018]

Lol ok, well let's just agree that this is your personal bugbear and yes Apple have really failed in not bringing the full app store to South Africa and it sucks.

Yes Apple have failed here and it is a bugbear but who has succeeded to bring video, apps and music 100% legally?

Google Play? Nope
Microsoft? Nope

I think you can get music via Nokia and maybe others

Here we have issues here with
- FPB wanting to rate games - Some vendors just ignore this one because the FPB are turning a blind eye to it
- The content distributors (Gallo, Naspers etc.)

So let see who is first.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Yes Apple have failed here and it is a bugbear but who has succeeded to bring video, apps and music 100% legally?

Google Play? Nope
Microsoft? Nope

I think you can get music via Nokia and maybe others

Here we have issues here with
- FPB wanting to rate games - Some vendors just ignore this one because the FPB are turning a blind eye to it
- The content distributors (Gallo, Naspers etc.)

So let see who is first.

You can get the same services via Google (Install Market enabler) than what you can with Apple (Giving false information). Both illegal.

I think Microsoft is the only one that seems to be doing this right.

 

[HBee]

ok, meanwhile back on the actual topic....

With a better product range, superior prices and glowing reviews, this is going to be a glorious holiday season for Android.