d0b33
Honorary Master
Meh... people who kill I have no respect for, all sides are evil just different degrees, taking sides is lame.
-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: What is your non-negotiable item, device, or app for international travel?
Anglo-Boer War
- Thread starter coolio24
- Start date
Ah, old Midnight Apprentice Wizard, he of the double spaced paragraphs and initialed forum posts.
I would have thought that the OP's statement that -
- would have been enough to discourage you trolling.
Guess you're caressing your Union Jack right now.
Blah!Blah!
Senior Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_African_Nationality
http://www.voortrekker-history.co.za/slagters_nek_great_trek.php
http://www.sahistory.org.za/pages/chronology/general/1800.htm
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=...lack circuit in south african history&f=false
and google is your friend
Vrotappel
Bulls fan
Funny how history changes over time...
But don't fear it will be written again and again.
But don't fear it will be written again and again.
At double combatant casualties the Boers won, well they lost, but they were better soldiers overall. The Boers, like in the American Civil War, were also helped by foreigners too.
The war was brought on by Cecil John Rhodes and Co wanting access to the Boer gold, diamonds etc? No?
Before the discovery of those things, the British didn't really care about the Boers outside of Cape Province, Durban and PE.
rwenzori
Honorary Master
To those from the "other side", rather visit an Uitlander cemetery to remember those who were victimised and disenfranchised.
Before you fling yourself about demonizing the Brits., see my blog.
South Africa: Mythbuster – English concentration camps
Really didn't think I would have to don a flame jacket for this thread, but it is on now.
War memorials, wreath laying ceremonies, and commemorations are far less about demonising the other side, than about remembering those who have fallen fighting for a cause they believed in.
I went along to the service at the Irene concentration camp this morning, and the strongest thing that came out was the idea of reconcilliation and forgiveness, that emerged after the war, and also of the hope between the two wars.
I feel it is rather safe to say that the British and the Boers have buried the hatchet, much like the British and the Indians, or the British and the Americans.
No-one bats an eyelid when the Americans celebrate the 4th July, or commemorate those who died during the war of independence.
Why should we not commemorate the Boers and others who fought to release the country from British oppression, we celebrate the lives of those who fought to liberate South Africa from Apartheid dont we ?
BTW - I am not Afrikaans, man, I am not even white, but I am not going to let that stop me from commemorating a very significant part of our ( yes all our ) history
Yes, I sort of rounded off the figures and such, but my source is angloboerwar.com
There is still ongoing research being carried out, learnt today that the official number of those who died at the Irene concentration camp was +- 1 300, they have found grave numbers up to 2 900
Maybe I went OTT. I am just so weary of the Boers dumping on the Brits. about the concentration camps. I thought you were gearing-up for that. Of course, you are right.
MidnightWizard
Executive Member
Wreath Laying
Well said
I agree with everything you say here
Except .........
Some --> "Boers" <-- please note the capitals -- have NOT buried the Mauser.
Unfortunately for some people history ( a particular view of it ) is alive today as it was 150 years ago.
What is important to me is trying to figure out WHY the war started in the first place.
This is quite often where the most obfuscation myths lies etc start.
We can debate the issues - some of us can can get heated but walk away with out wanting to start another war -- some not.
What I find disturbing is the the wishing for the "second-coming" -- of the Germans / NAZIS ( and the annihilation of the hated English ) that is a part of a certain mythological construct.
For these people 1903 was just a temporary setback -- they achieved their dream in 1948 and 1961 ( May 31st ) -- pity it has now come to an end.
BUT
Unfortunately the English are still around -- but not in SA
So an ESSA -- Engels Sprekende Suid Afrikaaner -- will have to do.
On my maternal side my heritage goes all the way back to van Riebeck -- but I am still happy to be an ESSA.
For some even being an "Afrikaaner" is no longer good enough.
Go try figure that one out ??????
MW
Well said
I agree with everything you say here
Except .........
Some --> "Boers" <-- please note the capitals -- have NOT buried the Mauser.
Unfortunately for some people history ( a particular view of it ) is alive today as it was 150 years ago.
What is important to me is trying to figure out WHY the war started in the first place.
This is quite often where the most obfuscation myths lies etc start.
We can debate the issues - some of us can can get heated but walk away with out wanting to start another war -- some not.
What I find disturbing is the the wishing for the "second-coming" -- of the Germans / NAZIS ( and the annihilation of the hated English ) that is a part of a certain mythological construct.
For these people 1903 was just a temporary setback -- they achieved their dream in 1948 and 1961 ( May 31st ) -- pity it has now come to an end.
BUT
Unfortunately the English are still around -- but not in SA
So an ESSA -- Engels Sprekende Suid Afrikaaner -- will have to do.
On my maternal side my heritage goes all the way back to van Riebeck -- but I am still happy to be an ESSA.
For some even being an "Afrikaaner" is no longer good enough.
Go try figure that one out ??????
MW
OhGats
Senior Member
Bravo.. well said. I also stop at the many graves I visit and photograph them all, friend and foe. Its no longer about the wars and the killing its about the ones who have paid a part in shaping our country. Warts and all. Once again I will post my favourite piece of commemoration....
"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours... You the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears. Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
(Lieutenant Colonel Mustafa Kemal (1881-1938) commanded the Turkish 19th Infantry Division when it resisted the invading Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) at Arı Burnu on the Gallipoli peninsula in 1915 during World War I. He went on to be the founder and first President of Turkey, and was accordingly bestowed the honorific Atatürk (Father of the Turks) by the Turkish parliament.)
Morgoth
Executive Member
honestly how the hell do you bring the boer war and the AWB (ET) together?
The boer war is something Afrikaners can be proud of , both the first and second freedom war!
The Afrikaners were one of the first who saw no point in fighting in rows! ,
It is the first genocide and use of concentration camps, quite a remarkable piece of our history
It is so sad that they don't teach it in schools any more ;/ how many South Africans have an idea who Danie Theron, Lord Kitchener or Christian De Wet were?
and yes oom Paul didn't have much to do with the war itself, he spend his time in Holland and Switzerland getting support.
The boer war is something Afrikaners can be proud of , both the first and second freedom war!
The Afrikaners were one of the first who saw no point in fighting in rows! ,
It is the first genocide and use of concentration camps, quite a remarkable piece of our history
It is so sad that they don't teach it in schools any more ;/ how many South Africans have an idea who Danie Theron, Lord Kitchener or Christian De Wet were?
and yes oom Paul didn't have much to do with the war itself, he spend his time in Holland and Switzerland getting support.
Last edited:
Morgoth
Executive Member
yes, the first freedom war came from the English side though - although it was more of a resistance against an expedition force imho,
Great quote thanks
honestly how the hell do you bring the boer war and the AWB (ET) together?
The boer war is something Afrikaners can be proud of , both the first and second freedom war!
The Afrikaners were one of the first who saw no point in fighting in rows! ,
It is the first genocide and use of concentration camps, quite a remarkable piece of our history
Was the ABW the first major war where one side actively involved civilians in the fighting. The start of full on 'guerilla warfare' so to speak
Last edited:
Sackboy
Executive Member
Though the camps were not great places, many of the Boers didn't practise basic hygiene and when they were put together, many diseases took hold.
The other camps were for black people who sided with the Boers. They were separated because they didn't eat the same things as the Boers apparently.
The British were not the first to use concentration camps in the ABW, the Spanish used it against the Cubans in 1895, but the British done it on a much larger scale.
@ Sackboy - it is difficult to maintain personal hygiene, when you have very little water or sanitation facilities.
Maize ( Mealie meal ) was provided to the Boer camps - and very, very little meat, what did they give to the black camps then
@ Sackboy - it is difficult to maintain personal hygiene, when you have very little water or sanitation facilities.
Maize ( Mealie meal ) was provided to the Boer camps - and very, very little meat, what did they give to the black camps then
Nanfeishen
Executive Member
A very good book on the Boer War, and well worth reading is:
Commando: A Boer Journal of the Boer War
By Deneys Reitz
Another book also worth reading , WRT the Camps, is:
Fire in the Sky- The destruction of the Orange Free State 1899 - 1902
By Owen Coetzer
The above book has some interesting photographs as well, showing Black mercenaries in British Uniform looting and burning farms, British troops slaughtering livestock and blowing up farmhouses.
Photo's of some of the camps are there too.
Springfield Camp under snow for instance, showing tents that collapsed under the weight of snow.
Women and children in coal trucks being transported in an eerie prelude to a future era.
Back of the book, gives the figures (that exist) for the following camps:
Aliwal North
Bethulie
Bloemfontein
Brandfort
Harrismith
Heilbron
Kimberley
Kroonstad
Norval's Point
Orange River
Springfontein
Vredefort Road
Winburg
Kromellenboog
and Ladybrand
Commando: A Boer Journal of the Boer War
By Deneys Reitz
Another book also worth reading , WRT the Camps, is:
Fire in the Sky- The destruction of the Orange Free State 1899 - 1902
By Owen Coetzer
The above book has some interesting photographs as well, showing Black mercenaries in British Uniform looting and burning farms, British troops slaughtering livestock and blowing up farmhouses.
Photo's of some of the camps are there too.
Springfield Camp under snow for instance, showing tents that collapsed under the weight of snow.
Women and children in coal trucks being transported in an eerie prelude to a future era.
Back of the book, gives the figures (that exist) for the following camps:
Aliwal North
Bethulie
Bloemfontein
Brandfort
Harrismith
Heilbron
Kimberley
Kroonstad
Norval's Point
Orange River
Springfontein
Vredefort Road
Winburg
Kromellenboog
and Ladybrand
I also heard that the reason that the death toll was so high in the camps (I don’t know if this is true but it sounds plausible) was that the Boer immune system was greatly weakened. They lived isolated lives on farms and in very small communities. When they were thrust into densely populated camps and combined with indifferent hygiene, they became prey to many opportunistic diseases that others would just shrug-off.