Another Airlink aircraft down

IIRC Hansie Cronje was killed in a plane crash while circling, waiting to land at that airport
 
Hosehead said:
:D Nuggie is a Fly-Africa Moderator and he's a Regional Airline Pilot.
Nice to see you sort out the idiocy nugs.
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Pleasure guys. I'm actually more of a computer freak at heart though ..... :cool:
 
alf101 said:
Nope.

Was just throwing out some wild ideas like some other posters. ;)

Was thinking they should have a net at the end of the runway at George, like on aircraft carriers.
I thought that all major airports had those.
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You might be trying to stop a 200 ton aircraft traveling at serious speed.....

Most airports have a designated clearway/stopway beyond the end of the runway to cater for overruns. Where a stopway cannot be accommodated, some airports build frangible arrestor beds (called EMAS - engineered material arrestor system), but they are extremely expensive to build and probably out of our SA budgets.
 
REDACT -- NUG

nugpot said:
The problem with a/c are that the speeds are significantly higher than car speeds. Typical touch-down speed for a 135 would be around 135kts (about 250km/h). Things can go wrong very quickly when you are travelling at 70m/sec.
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Oh great one -- the miserable unanimated smileys here will never do you justice :D


Now that you have shot all my miserable idiot posting to shreds.

( WHAT is a poor boy to do in an emergency -- steering brakes accelerator )

PLEASE

do tell us what YOU think :)


MW
 
nugpot said:
You might be trying to stop a 200 ton aircraft traveling at serious speed.....

Most airports have a designated clearway/stopway beyond the end of the runway to cater for overruns. Where a stopway cannot be accommodated, some airports build frangible arrestor beds (called EMAS - engineered material arrestor system), but they are extremely expensive to build and probably out of our SA budgets.
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That gravel they use on F1 tracks works pretty well.
 
MidnightWizard said:
( WHAT is a poor boy to do in an emergency -- steering brakes accelerator )

PLEASE

do tell us what YOU think :)


MW
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There are a few things to look at before you get to the end of the runway.

Airlines have a "stable approach" policy where there are certain parameters that have to be satisfied at a certain altitude for the landing to continue. For smaller jets this is normally at 500' above ground. If you are too fast, not fully configured for landing or not on the normal approach slope, you have to go around.

If you were "in the slot" at 500' and things go wrong with the touchdown (due to wind, pilot inputs etc), you will be better off by discontinuing the landing and going around. This is possible even after touchdown, but not advised once the thrust reversers have deployed. This is very important when you have missed your touchdown point and are floating just above the runway at 70m/sec. Go around and try again.

Once you have landed and see that you have a lack of braking ability (due aquaplaning or mechanical failure), you are managing an accident. Full reverse (consistent with directional control) and full braking (antiskid will continuously cycle - you feel it through your feet) until the a/c has come to a full stop. You could try to miss the approach lights at the end of the runway if you have directional control, but it is not worth losing retardation by releasing brakes to steer.

If you are lucky, the a/c would stop before you run out of tarmac. The idea is to avoid being in that position in the first place. Pilots are aware of the distance required for landing under various different scenarios (including weather, ice, snow and mechanical problems with brakes) and are expected to plan accordingly.

We all know that as human we will probably screw up at some stage, and our bosses expect the other member of the cockpit crew to be the failsafe and intervene before an accident happens. Pilots are pretty expensive, so having two is stupid if you did not specifically need the second one :D

Runway excursions are all too common and in almost all cases the initial cause is a hot approach followed by a late touchdown.

If you are a masochist, you can have a look at the following summary by the Aussies:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/27370/ar2008018_1.pdf

If all else fails, bend over and kiss you a$$ goodbye ... ;)
 
alf101 said:
That gravel they use on F1 tracks works pretty well.
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Rofl - someone tell me why they don't build 200 ton F1 cars then!? :p

ON a side note - can anyone remind me why BA'a Comair was grounded by the Aviation Authority and not Airlink?
 
How much water does It take to aquaplane a plane?

I Still do not see enough water. IF it is so easy, why does airports not close when it starts to rain? I live close to OR Tambo. And they only ground the planes in very very bad weather. Thunderstorms High winds and heavy rains.

Why were it not sent to PE if it was rain related?
 
Swoooosh

nugpot said:
There are a few things to look at before you get to the end of the runway.
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Hey "TOPGUN"
That is a bit like saying -- "you should have used a condom" :D

Thanks for the interesting and informative approach -- whoops sorry post /

nugpot said:
Once you have landed and see that you have a lack of braking ability (due aquaplaning or mechanical failure), you are managing an accident. Full reverse (consistent with directional control) and full braking (antiskid will continuously cycle - you feel it through your feet) until the a/c has come to a full stop. You could try to miss the approach lights at the end of the runway if you have directional control, but it is not worth losing retardation by releasing brakes to steer.
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I hear something about brakes failing ??? Brakes fade and fail when they get hot -- which they do NOT -- IF -- the ABS / AntiSkid is working properly.

nugpot said:
We all know that as human we will probably screw up at some stage, and our bosses expect the other member of the cockpit crew to be the failsafe and intervene before an accident happens. Pilots are pretty expensive, so having two [is] stupid if you did not specifically need the second one :D
Click to expand...

*Conflict of Command* Should we or should'nt we fire off those nukes today :confused::D

nugpot said:
If you are a masochist, you can have a look at the following summary
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Busy downloading now

nugpot said:
If all else fails, bend over and kiss you a$$ goodbye ... ;)
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At what sort of speed can one attempt a "ground-loop" :confused:

Better a broken leg than a broken back -- talking about the aircraft of course.

MW
 
I think Nugs is hinting that the pilots should have gone around again. If they had made a texbook landing, the incident may have been avoided.

Unfortunately the culture of commercial aviation is such that getting the thing on the ground is the priority. There is often talk of what going around costs in terms of jet-fuel.
 
Jet fuel is probably less of an issue - it's delays and backlog. To a pilot, that translates into longer hours (already long for experienced pilots).
 
rose_vz said:
ON a side note - can anyone remind me why BA'a Comair was grounded by the Aviation Authority and not Airlink?
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I think you are referring to Nationwide, and they were grounded because of serious deficiencies found after they lost an engine in CPT.

Airlink is a good Company having a bit of a torrid time. I would not exclude a bit of crappy management (on the flight ops side), but it is not an inherently unsafe operation.
 
Sorry - you're right. It was Nationwide. I just question the way that Nationwide was handled... perhaps I'm a conspiracy theorist, but it seemed like a nice way to thwart the SAA competition at the time. Still think there's collusion between SAA and ACSA Lets face it... as a consumer, when you pay more for airport taxes than airfare, something appears amiss.
 
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