Robin Hood
Expert Member
lol...true...there is SO many crime nowadays, youll have to create a special "province" just for the police you'll need
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Question of the Day: Have you ever been to an airshow?
Another senseless death
- Thread starter Moederloos
- Start date
lol...true...there is SO many crime nowadays, youll have to create a special "province" just for the police you'll need
F
Fudzy
Guest
Terrible 
On the topic of the photos, I wonder what the point is other than to depress and enrage?
On the topic of the photos, I wonder what the point is other than to depress and enrage?MacNabs
Senior Member
I was involved in neigbourhood watch, it prooved very effective. That was until my wife and kids were terrorised by criminals in our garden while I was out on a shift. I then decided it was safer and more efficient to stay home with them as eaving your family home alone so late at night is not a good idea. Afterall why should I be out protecting others properties when mine was at a big risk when out. As for reporting everything, the SAPS these days are very insufficient, not going to work mate.
In a first world country you rely on the state to provide basic services and security, in SA people are paying for these services and are not receiving them.
The most proactive thing to do is to get out of the country...
Not to sound insensitive but why did this woman stay near the house with these kids after calling Armed response? In the article the burglar came out first then went back inside, he didn't shoot THEN. Then the woman calls the Security Co and all hell breaks loose.
Was she still in the driveway in front of the house?
Then the security company why did they just start shooting? Who fired the first shot?
Did they surround the house first? What about waiting for the cops to get on the scene and what about getting the BYSTANDERS OUT OF THE WAY???
At the end of the day this kid died to save someones possessions because the thing was handled in a Western cowboy shoot-out style. Maybe this wasn't the case but from this article it sure sounds like it.
I moaned about this earlier. Cases where people (bystanders and guards) shoot at robbers who are getting away for instance. The robbers shoot back. Innocent people get hit.
The POLICE AFAIK have clear rules of engagement in order to minimise collateral damage.
Was she still in the driveway in front of the house?
Then the security company why did they just start shooting? Who fired the first shot?
Did they surround the house first? What about waiting for the cops to get on the scene and what about getting the BYSTANDERS OUT OF THE WAY???
At the end of the day this kid died to save someones possessions because the thing was handled in a Western cowboy shoot-out style. Maybe this wasn't the case but from this article it sure sounds like it.
I moaned about this earlier. Cases where people (bystanders and guards) shoot at robbers who are getting away for instance. The robbers shoot back. Innocent people get hit.
The POLICE AFAIK have clear rules of engagement in order to minimise collateral damage.
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*GAWD* I really hate people with an attitude like yours! Go ahead, JUSTIFY why a kid died, shift the blame... seems to me thats the way you cope with the situation.
Waiting for the Cops! .. have you EVER waited for the cops? Many are STILL waiting for the cops to arrive.
One person says 'SA people are not doing enough to help the fight against crime' and now you say 'wait for the cops'
There is no happy medium! dammed of you do, dammed if you dont.
You have no-idea what transpired, and nor do the media. Someone violated HER LIVING SPACE, and you have the audacity to question HER actions? She is the VICTIM, not the perpetrator. The Article took longer for you to READ than the timeline of ACTUAL events.. so please close off with...
My prayers go out to friends and family... People in SA has suffered enough.
/me goes off to puke
Counterproductive to what? To the aims of the forum? Not with you there.
MacNabs
Senior Member
*GAWD* I really hate people with an attitude like yours! Go ahead, JUSTIFY why a kid died, shift the blame... seems to me thats the way you cope with the situation.
Waiting for the Cops! .. have you EVER waited for the cops? Many are STILL waiting for the cops to arrive.
One person says 'SA people are not doing enough to help the fight against crime' and now you say 'wait for the cops'
There is no happy medium! dammed of you do, dammed if you dont.
You have no-idea what transpired, and nor do the media. Someone violated HER LIVING SPACE, and you have the audacity to question HER actions? She is the VICTIM, not the perpetrator. The Article took longer for you to READ than the timeline of ACTUAL events.. so please close off with...
My prayers go out to friends and family... People in SA has suffered enough.
/me goes off to puke
well said.
*GAWD* I really hate people with an attitude like yours! Go ahead, JUSTIFY why a kid died, shift the blame... seems to me thats the way you cope with the situation.
Waiting for the Cops! .. have you EVER waited for the cops? Many are STILL waiting for the cops to arrive.
One person says 'SA people are not doing enough to help the fight against crime' and now you say 'wait for the cops'
There is no happy medium! dammed of you do, dammed if you dont.
You have no-idea what transpired, and nor do the media. Someone violated HER LIVING SPACE, and you have the audacity to question HER actions? She is the VICTIM, not the perpetrator. The Article took longer for you to READ than the timeline of ACTUAL events.. so please close off with...
My prayers go out to friends and family... People in SA has suffered enough.
/me goes off to puke
First of all you should't react with emotion. Yes its a tragedy but unless you're involved personally you should at least analise the situation before
jumping to conclusions.
The way I understand it:
Mother with children in car arrives at another child's house.
That house is currently being robbed.
Mother hoots, bandit comes out, goes back inside.
Woman panics calls Security Co.
WHAT THEN? Did she drive away or did she just sit there and if she drove
away did she drive away a safe distance?
Security Co arrives.
Shooting starts.
Child dies tragically.
Every sane person on earth would blame the criminals involved, no need to point that out again. What gets me is how this girl got into the crossfire.
She was in the car which arrived at the residence which was being robbed.
The woman knew something was wrong - she called the security co which
must have taken - what 2-3 minutes to arrive? What did she do in that time?
I would have gotten the hell out of there. If my kids were in the back the first thing I would have done was drive around the corner or even 2-3 blocks away and THEN called the cavalry.
No-one is really blaming this woman but there are many factors involved.
Securit Co come on scene. What do they do? Do they just start blasting away? Aren't they meant to secure the area first and GET THE BYSTANDERS AWAY? Why didn't the Security Co dispatch tell the woman to get the F away? As far as I can recall in all these 911 shows, the operator always tells the caller to get to safety as a matter of priority.
Maybe the operators of the Security Co should have told this woman that?
Anway terrible but there are other factors. ROE are there for a purpose too
as are emergency protocols.
Oh and BTW I've seen plenty of assault and murder victims myself, of all colours. I've seen dead kids too and raped ones too. I'm telling you this to realise that I'm not someone who doesn't know what suffering is.
Oh and I was also almost shot myself by a security response guy. Installer comes to house to repair alarm system, inadvertedly triggers silent panic alarm. A few minutes later, Response guy with drawn gun arrives at door, doorbell rings, I open it, I have TV remote in hand, big black thing, waving it around-- looks almost like a gun.... it wasn't a nice experience and I could have been hit in the chest right there and then if the guy had been jumpy.
Oh and I was also almost shot myself by a security response guy. Installer comes to house to repair alarm system, inadvertedly triggers silent panic alarm. A few minutes later, Response guy with drawn gun arrives at door, doorbell rings, I open it, I have TV remote in hand, big black thing, waving it around-- looks almost like a gun.... it wasn't a nice experience and I could have been hit in the chest right there and then if the guy had been jumpy.
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Why was the criminal there in the first place... back up one step. Why ...... The kid died 'cos the Law enforcement system is SA is totally Facked up, and criminals KNOW they can get away with murder.
Your reasoning just leads to 'Ag well, they asked to be attacked.... it was coming sooner or later' and de-sensitising and playing down a cold blooded murder.
I am not arguing about the Security Co or the Criminals or the Victims. no-one is perfect and can think like yourself, people make mistakes...
If the SA law agencies were credible, then there will be NO NEED for a cowboy security company. SA is a sick society.
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I am not arguing that... I am p1ssed off at 'Mr Insensitive'. Changing the focus of the whole topic from MURDER to 'The mother was a dumbass'
I already told you that 'every sane person would blame the criminals' we've said this already. It's evident. These guys should get LIFE and if there was the Death Penalty maybe they should get that.
The problem lies in many factors here. On the one hand you know there is lots of crime around and you have your children with you, you see something so suspicious you call ARMED response, you don't go chat with the guy - you call the big guns in. You are already thinking that a dangrous situation has occured. Now here the security dispacher should have told the woman to get to safety, so even if she didn't know this herself - someone should have told her - the 911 guys are trained to do that.
Yes we think its terrible that a child should die. However we should take lessons from this so that more innocents don't die. Security Co should analise where THEY WENT WRONG and DAMN well prevent it from happening again. The response on the scene should be investigated and so forth.
Even before all of that, we should draw our own conclusions, such a situation could happen again - let's be prepared for it - at least we should expect shooting to occur and bullets go through car doors and windows.
I am not arguing that... I am p1ssed off at 'Mr Insensitive'. Changing the focus of the whole topic from MURDER to 'The mother was a dumbass'
Well crying doesn't save lives. This is a tragedy but we're removed we don't know the victim. What we can do now is to tell all our relatives and friends about this event and explain how maybe a different response from those concerned could have averted the tragedy. If that happens this poor girl didn't die in vain at least.
Reality is that for the mother the whole episode was probably the last thing on her mind. She was probably half in a state of panic/shock. Sadly, criminals have the upper hand as we cannot be vigilant 24/7. They are winning. Well done to them. Another win for an already screwed up society.
You're right but then the Security Co should live up to their expectations. The people who take the calls should warn the caller to get to safety first.
You constantly hear about never entering a home which has been broken into - you get to safety and call the Security/Police from there.
I hope the truth emerges and that if the Security people were to blame (not just the armed response guys) they
damn well make sure they change the way they handled this situation and this filters down to ALL the various
companies around the country.
dlk001
Executive Member
I hope we will get a full report.