Anyone using ViBE ? Both at PE and CE

Treschen

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Hi Guys

My company wants to deploy ViBE within our environment we are a VOIP company, so far from internet research i found many websites selling ViBE and giving it good reviews, I would like to know if any has had BAD experiences with ViBE ? and Good experiences of course. Please be honest if you cant answer on the forum feel free to drop me a PM

Looking forward to hearing from you guys

Thanks!
 
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I use it PE side; with various customers on CE side.

Kudos to VoIPex on genius marketing; they've persuaded so many people that it's the be-all and end-off of VoIP, that we were forced - by customer demand - to deploy it and offer it as a service.

There are a few big reality checks that customers get:
(a) ViBE cannot fix bad bandwidth. This is the single biggest misconception that customers have and, despite the number of times I've explained this to them up front, I've still had some deploy it, cancel a month later, and then expect a refund on the equipment, because they've refused to listen to me after allowing someone else to persuade them that it can fix packet loss.
(b) ViBE is a trunking solution; not only does it have zero benefit if you don't generally make at least four simultaneous calls during routine usage, but it actually wastes a huge amount of bandwidth if your usage is often zero or one call at a time. Low-volume customers get horrified when they realise it's used up more bandwidth, not saved them any. It uses ~96kbit/s of bandwidth 24/7/365 even if you have zero calls, just on two-way monitoring, keepalives, etc. If you're going to deploy, ensure that it's at a site where there are sufficient simultaneous calls to warrant it. (e.g. >8 at peak times, >3 on average during office hours). Personally, I think it is a complete waste unless you need to exceed the simultaneous calls that the underlying link can physically carry.

There are also a few reality checks for providers:
(a) if you want to get the most out of ViBE, it needs to be used for both voice and data. That means that, unless you have your own IP-Connect (and I don't mean the use of someone else's branded as your own) you're going to tunnel your client's data over DSL bandwidth that you're paying for, into your network over capacity that you're paying for, and break out data back onto the internet that you're paying for. i.e. TRIPLE the cost of using a regular wholesale DSL account.
(b) Despite (a), it's ability to prioritise and split voice and data relies on consistency of performance of the underlying connection. E.g. If you assume your 4Mb/s ADSL will achieve 3.5Mb/s download and 0.4Mb/s upload, program the ViBE unit as such, and then discover that there is DSLAM congestion, the ViBE until will NOT be able to calculate the actual performance achieved over the DSL and dynamically reconfigure to reserve bandwidth for VoIP.
(c) The PE equipment, while pretty stable, is not flawless. In fairness, we typically get a number of months worth of uptime before suddenly having to reboot (and that has increased to around 6 months since reducing the load to a fraction of the hardware's stated capacity).
(d) When rolling out Hosted Switchboard and similar solutions, SIP signalling used for busy lamp's, presence, etc. causes short spikes of bandwidth usage that ViBE cannot reduce at all. It can only reduce bandwidth associated with call media, not signalling. Keep this in mind as it will impact on the expected benefits for Hosted Switchboard customers.

And reality for both:
(a) there was a time when an ADSL typically had a mere 256kb/s upload; ViBE was extremely useful to carry many calls on the same capacity. These days, 640kb/s or 1024kb/s upload speeds are typical. That's > 12 / >18 simultaneous calls. Reality check: clients spending that much money that they have > 12 simultaneous calls don't want to use ADSL. They typically have fibre connections or M.E. or carrier grade wireless. So ViBE isn't needed for smaller clients or larger ones any more.
(b) The hardware specs that VoIPex cite are way too generous. Literally halve the claimed simultaneous calls and remote licenses for each of the devices if you want them to work reliably, whether PE or CE equipment.

So, negatives aside, there are some places where ViBE is pretty useful:
(a) We provide service via many WISPs. ViBE allows us to build a tunnel right to the core of their networks and deploy a PUBLIC IP on the tunnel. That allows us to avoid NAT issues on lousy DSL routers and to perform bandwidth monitoring to that public IP (even if the ADSL connection changes or the WISP suddenly changes the backhaul connection, e.g. to 3G backup).
(b) By contrast, any other tunneling protocol (e.g. PPTP, L2TP) would typically double (or even triple) the bandwidth consumption.
(c) Those WISPs are often in rural areas where high-speed bandwidth is costly. Even those that use diginet or similar premium links pay a fortune on distance charges. Those that use ADSL for back haul often congest their local DSLAM. With decent bandwidth at a significant premium over what it would cost in the big cities, ViBE helps save money, reduce congestion and work within the confines of limited bandwidth.

So, with the good and bad together, I guess what I'm saying is that - provided you deploy ViBE where it makes sense (and not all over the show) - it is worth deploying. As broadband (ADSL, HSPA+ and LTE in particular) connection increase in capacity, there are fewer and fewer places where ViBE makes sense. But there are still instances where it makes sense and adds benefit. And, if you want a public IP at a customer site (e.g. for bandwidth monitoring, NAT avoidance, etc.), ViBE is the only way to tunnel VoIP without adding extreme overheads.
 
Very well written and explained GMZA, i agree there has been much hype and expectations unrealistic but as you point out it does have its uses if you understand fully what it can do.
There is only one point here i would like to clear up , GMZA points out that it cannot fix packet loss, well, that is not strictly true. ViBE can run in RAIN mode, it has the ability to send 2 RTP (media streams) over 2 different WAN's. On the assumption that you will not loose the same packets on both links, we are able to reassemble the packet streams and reduce the packet loss. You will of course use twice the bandwidth but just remember you are saving much more than double by using ViBE in the 1st place. This Rain mode could even be set up to send 2 RTP streams down a single DSL line, one behind the other and if the line is 'Bursty' and the bursts are short, it may assist.
The conclusion is ViBE certainly has its place in certain applications but it is not a replacement for a PRI using a 4Mg DSL line, and ive seen this advertised often !!!!!
 
The problem with RAIN is that you increase your latency to the level of the worse of the two links and, consequently, degrade your overall experience, even when one of the two links is operating well. In good conditions, it will make things worse.
 
Just to clear up a few things:

The bandwidth used by ViBE when there is otherwise no traffic is used to monitor the link and give realtime jitter, latency and loss stats, and also allow fail-over to a backup link very quickly. If you don't require this, then you can reduce or even eliminate that traffic with a few configuration tweaks. In any case though if there is any other traffic present then there is no real additional traffic ( well, it's of the order of 100 bytes per second and at the ATM level virtually zero.)

The call handling capacity of the boxes is really a packets per second measure, so additional load will cause the real number of calls a piece of hardware can handle to be less. This is the same for any router device. An example would be a box that can handle 150 calls in a single 2mbit/s link would only be able to handle 100 calls spread across 50 X 256mbit/s links.

RAIN does not increase the latency to that of the slowest link, but reduces the bandwidth available to that of the slowest link ( in a dual link scenario.) However, if there is packet loss on the faster link, then you will get increased jitter since some packets have to be used from the slower link.

At an ATM level using 20ms G.729 there is a bandwidth saving ( notwithstanding the point about tweaks above) when only two calls are present. If you use vibe for both voice and data then data throughput will be higher when any number of calls are present versus the case without vibe.

There are many additional uses for ViBE, such as active-passive fail-over, link bonding, and monitoring. Many people use it with diginet links providing wireless or ADSL backup for example, so whilst it's true to say that it doesn't suit all situations, it isn't true that it has no use where bandwidth is available. There are people running it on backbone links carrying many hundreds of calls... Such links can be a quarter the size that they would otherwise need to be.

Just in case it isn't obvious, yes I do work for the company - but not in the marketing department! Actually on the marketing front, we do very little.

Edit: Actually gmza - if you are really seeing 96kbit/s of bandwidth use even when there is otherwise no other traffic then there is clearly something wrong. For one thing, ViBE works on links with much lower bandwidth than that to start with. But, even with the default settings, the quiescent traffic will be no more than around 5kbit/s, even at the ATM level.

A final point ( honest ) is that a point was raised about not being able to determine when there is congestion at the DSLAM or other part of the backbone network. The latest versions do, in fact, have a mechanism to do just that, and hence keep the QoS profiles when such a thing happens. However, it can't work miracles, and so its effectiveness will depend on the specific topography.
 
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Definitely something up there - shouldn't be anywhere near that high. First thing to do is to make absolutely sure that the link is otherwise idle by looking at the graph/SNMP for the ViBE interface. Then ideally a capture of the packets on the wan interface to double check that it really is vibe causing the traffic. I would suggest giving our tech team a shout after the holidays... Or alternatively if you're willing /able to give me remote access I can try to have a quick look to see if I can see what's going on. ( send me a pm.)
 
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