Apple and Nokia settle patent dispute

This just seems a lot like spin from the pro-Apple crowd. I just can't see it being a 'win' for Apple, given the costs involved, and the judgment a couple of months ago that Nokia and HTC weren't infringing some of their patents. Also, what is really key is the nature of the initial patents in the suit by Nokia. The keys ones were in GSM, UMTS, and WLAN, and which others already license from Nokia, or cross-license due to them also having patents involved in the standards, e.g. Samsung's involvement in GSM. The rest of the patents were seemingly used as part of the "You've shown me yours, I'll show you mine" battle, where the parties involved try to leverage the weight of patents against one another to end up with a favourable settlement. Very few of the patents were actually tested, and if Nokia were to go up against one of the big companies, i.e. without the main initial patents involved in the standards, I can't really see that their opposition would just roll over.

This does, however, signal a worrying change of direction for Nokia. Since they have easily the largest patent pool of any mobile manufacturer, and with their decline in revenue after their terrible decisions regarding mobile OS's, there is scope for them to degrade into a patent troll of epic proportion, which is a very bad thing for the industry.
 
Rudimental, the FOSS Patents blog is not pro-Apple (not part of the pro-Apple crowd), and that is where MacRumors got their information from. Link: http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/ (a good read).

I do agree with your last paragraph though. Nokia's IP portfolio is very strong and if they can wrestle Apple into submission chances are good they will do so with just about any company. The FOSS blog predicted such an outcome some time back based on Nokia's favourable position. This settlement attached a market value to the Nokia patents and all others could now be forced to pay a market value price (unless it is in Nokia's interest not to push but to negotiate for something of more value to them). Nokia can well turn into a patent troll of epic proportions.
 
Mueller is saying that Apple lost, but might gain some benefit from this if others get hit harder. Then people are going on to say how this is in fact a major win for Apple, which quite simply seems at best extremely premature, and at worst absurd. Mueller's analysis of the consequences of this suit seems devoid of any substance. He just says everyone must now pay Nokia. For what exactly, and in virtue of which patents, is never mentioned.

Given the nature of the main initial patents, it is very unlikely that Nokia will target anyone else with them, except perhaps smaller companies, like HTC, who are the relative newcomers. I very much doubt that will happen, though, since HTC is one of the few manufacturers of WP7 phones, and the biggest one at that, with the most models. Nokia really needs WP7 to succeed in the short term before it hits what must be an inevitable exclusivity button sometime in the future, and since it doesn't currently have anything of its own, it needs to rely on Samsung, LG, and HTC to do this. If it hits them up for a costly settlement, then expect the poorly selling WP7 phones to suffer. This is one of the reasons Apple was a good target for Nokia, but why most Android manufacturers won't be, since they are either old enough to have enough key patents of their own, or also sell WP7.
 
Rudimental said:
This is one of the reasons Apple was a good target for Nokia, but why most Android manufacturers won't be, since they are either old enough to have enough key patents of their own, or also sell WP7.
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So Apple in you opinion is not old enough to have enough key patents of their own, and therefore a good target? I don't buy this argument.

What I would buy is MS preventing Nokia from targeting their WP partners.
 
news24 said:
Nokia good? Didn't it pay Qualcomm millions for IP infringement?

PS! Roux, it's not billions, probably runs into millions, cross licencing is a bitch. Apple is paying less so that Nokia does not have to pay for some of Apple's IP.
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Well actually, as I read it, Apple is going to pay Nokia $780 million...... in Rands thats going far into the Billions, ha.
 
I am just glad I am not the accountant at the end of the day that has to work out who owns who how much

I saw a graph some time ago showing who pays who for patents and you can basically say everyone owes everyone something. IE: Nokia pays Motorola, HTC and Samsung money and the same goes the other way around. The same for Microsoft, Apple Dell and co... If you make a phone you will have to pay some people something finish and klaar.

Google's idea on Android is to make it a Anti-Product. Its free plus all members in the alliance get a % of the money made thanx to Android. Example: That app that you buy on the market, the 30% cut does not go to Google but to the OHA.
 
MS may not wish for Nokia to pursue their WP manufacturing partners but this creates a situation where those protected WP partners are on a short WP leash that can be used to hurt Android. Manufacturers can then easily be manipulated to prioritise WP, or pay-up. Anyway you look at it Android can be negatively affected. The same goes if Nokia themselves wish to promote the WP cause. In the long run this is going to hurt.
 
BeVonk! said:
MS may not wish for Nokia to pursue their WP manufacturing partners but this creates a situation where those protected WP partners are on a short WP leash that can be used to hurt Android. Manufacturers can then easily be manipulated to prioritise WP, or pay-up. Anyway you look at it Android can be negatively affected. The same goes if Nokia themselves wish to promote the WP cause. In the long run this is going to hurt.
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Depends on how you look at it, Pay $10 per device once off and get constant influx of money coming in. It does not sound to bad a tradeoff to me. The higher % of devices a manufacturer has on the Google Market the higher % cut they get from the total collected.

Current price for M$ is $15 per device.

Trust me Android is a Anti Product, that is what is scaring the crap out of Apple, Nokia and Microsoft
 
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With the demand for iPads and iPhones outstripping supply Apple can easily work the Nokia money into the prices of these items and still be in a demand > supply position. Apple won't feel this.
 
BeVonk! said:
So Apple in you opinion is not old enough to have enough key patents of their own, and therefore a good target? I don't buy this argument.

What I would buy is MS preventing Nokia from targeting their WP partners.
Click to expand...

We're talking mobile telecommunications here. Most of the other players have key patents involved in mobile standards that were developed before Apple even entered the market, and which everyone needs to license to adopt the standard. Most of the patents that Apple could use in mobile are in OS and interface design, and so their countersuits mainly targeted Symbian features. This is likely one of the reasons that the settlement favoured Nokia so much, since they could have just stopped selling their Symbian devices if they were shown to be infringing Apple's patents, given Symbian's poor sales and the fact that by the time this suit was finished Nokia would likely have WP7 devices out.

Sorry, I don't think I made this part very clear at all, but in this suit the validity of the initial patents asserted by Nokia was not in question. Apple did not deny that they were infringing, but refused to pay licensing fees because they felt they were too high, and because Nokia apparently also wanted access to Apple's own patents in return. It is likely that everyone else licenses these initial patents already (Nokia stated they were licensed to 40 other companies when they sued), which is why I mentioned HTC, who are also newcomers like Apple and so may not license them already. If Nokia wants to target anyone big, then they are likely going to have to use the patents they introduced later, which are mostly untested, and Apple was not found to be infringing those that were tested.
 
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