Apple falling behind ...

If you're referring to Mike Elgan's column "Why the iPhone Is Falling Behind", you need to read it in context. Mike is very pro-Google. Anything Google. I don't entirely disagree with him, but normal people don't get that excited about things like Google Now. I know several people with Galaxy S3s, and none of them have even activated Google Now. I've got Now on my iPhone, and so far have been unimpressed with what it has to offer. I use Gmail and Google Calendar, and Google still has no idea where my meetings are. How would it? I have many meetings in repeat venues, so why hasn't it learnt the location of these venues?

Do you realise that Google Now is available on FAR more iOS devices than Android? That's a major problem Google has still not addressed.

Most of the people I know using Android don't use Gmail or Google Calendar either. None of them are active on Google+ or even know what a Hangout is. Real people use Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp, Skype, etc, and these apps are awesome on the iPhone.

I believe Apple will continue to develop great new apps that are built into iOS that will have real world value to real people. Sadly, they only release updates to iOS once a year, so when it gets near the end of the cycle it starts to feel like Apple has fallen behind. If you're a true Apple fan, be patient; Apple will continue to innovate.
 
BruceA said:
If you're referring to Mike Elgan's column "Why the iPhone Is Falling Behind", you need to read it in context. Mike is very pro-Google. Anything Google. I don't entirely disagree with him, but normal people don't get that excited about things like Google Now. I know several people with Galaxy S3s, and none of them have even activated Google Now. I've got Now on my iPhone, and so far have been unimpressed with what it has to offer. I use Gmail and Google Calendar, and Google still has no idea where my meetings are. How would it? I have many meetings in repeat venues, so why hasn't it learnt the location of these venues?

Do you realise that Google Now is available on FAR more iOS devices than Android? That's a major problem Google has still not addressed.

Most of the people I know using Android don't use Gmail or Google Calendar either. None of them are active on Google+ or even know what a Hangout is. Real people use Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp, Skype, etc, and these apps are awesome on the iPhone.

I believe Apple will continue to develop great new apps that are built into iOS that will have real world value to real people. Sadly, they only release updates to iOS once a year, so when it gets near the end of the cycle it starts to feel like Apple has fallen behind. If you're a true Apple fan, be patient; Apple will continue to innovate.
Click to expand...

Only 1 small problem Google Now SA is waaaay different than Google Now USA, and Yes I get what you saying, the reporter is bias, but in the same line he did mention Facebook home. In short you missed the point. Its not about the tech but about how nice Apple is playing with it, or in this case not playing with it.

Another real world example would be one friend on Thursday that had to start up Whatsapp on his iPhone 5 in order to send and receive messages via the app. I was like WTF its on from the get go when I boot my Android.....
 
AlphaJohn said:
Another real world example would be one friend on Thursday that had to start up Whatsapp on his iPhone 5 in order to send and receive messages via the app. I was like WTF its on from the get go when I boot my Android.....
Click to expand...
The only time I have to start the app is to send a message which sort of makes sense, to me at least. I still receive messages when the app itself isnt running.
 
AlphaJohn said:
Then I find it really odd that he had to open the app when phone was switched on to get a message.... My bad
Click to expand...
If he's set up whatsapp in the notification centre then they'll be available there via the drop down as they come in.
 
AlphaJohn said:
Only 1 small problem Google Now SA is waaaay different than Google Now USA, and Yes I get what you saying, the reporter is bias, but in the same line he did mention Facebook home. In short you missed the point. Its not about the tech but about how nice Apple is playing with it, or in this case not playing with it.

Another real world example would be one friend on Thursday that had to start up Whatsapp on his iPhone 5 in order to send and receive messages via the app. I was like WTF its on from the get go when I boot my Android.....
Click to expand...

The BIG picture is that Apple and Google are 2 very different companies with very different business strategies. Google wants as much personal data about you, so that it can target ads at you. That's the point behind apps like Google Now. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it depends how much you value your privacy.

Apple make their money from selling hardware (and increasingly from apps), so their objective is to give the user the best user experience possible. Apple products may cost a premium, but you're getting great quality hardware and a great user experience. Apple is very protective of users' privacy, and for that reason is strict on how apps interact with the OS and with each other.

Sure, Apple doesn't allow things like sharing songs between users. You might say that that is because Apple wants you to buy your own copy of the song from iTunes. Or it may just be because it is illegal! Apple have a very high regard for the law. That is why you can't get games in the App Store yet. Apple are negotiating to do it legally. Sure, in the meantime we lose out, but I do respect Apple's moral standpoint.

Google doesn't care if you're using iOS or Android. They make no money directly from Android. That is why they'll continue to make great apps for iOS.

In an ideal world, Eric Schmidt wouldn't have betrayed Apple while on their board, and today Google would be fully integrated in iOS. Maybe that'll happen in the future...
 
BruceA said:
The BIG picture is that Apple and Google are 2 very different companies with very different business strategies. Google wants as much personal data about you, so that it can target ads at you. That's the point behind apps like Google Now. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it depends how much you value your privacy.

Apple make their money from selling hardware (and increasingly from apps), so their objective is to give the user the best user experience possible. Apple products may cost a premium, but you're getting great quality hardware and a great user experience. Apple is very protective of users' privacy, and for that reason is strict on how apps interact with the OS and with each other.

Sure, Apple doesn't allow things like sharing songs between users. You might say that that is because Apple wants you to buy your own copy of the song from iTunes. Or it may just be because it is illegal! Apple have a very high regard for the law. That is why you can't get games in the App Store yet. Apple are negotiating to do it legally. Sure, in the meantime we lose out, but I do respect Apple's moral standpoint.

Google doesn't care if you're using iOS or Android. They make no money directly from Android. That is why they'll continue to make great apps for iOS.

In an ideal world, Eric Schmidt wouldn't have betrayed Apple while on their board, and today Google would be fully integrated in iOS. Maybe that'll happen in the future...
Click to expand...

You're morally ok with what happens at Foxconn too?
So Android and other devices are too blame for Bluetooth technology and the immorality it spreads in the world? :rolleyes:

There's nothing that superior about Apple hardware that justifies the pricetag that comes along with it.
There's nothing about the iOS/Apple environment that could justify me having to tie my life down to iTunes.

Google's main revenue stream is ads.
Apple's is iTunes.

At least with Google, I can opt into what I want to share with them.
With Apple its all about control, about iTunes and the rest of the closed environment that is Apple hardware.

EDIT:

Just on the matter of "price points and justification" admittedly Android flagship devices have also soared to Apple levels and some beyond.
I for one still don't throw my money at them, brand new anyway - I've got no problem with 6-12 month old devices.
 
Last edited:
BruceA said:
The BIG picture is that Apple and Google are 2 very different companies with very different business strategies. Google wants as much personal data about you, so that it can target ads at you. That's the point behind apps like Google Now. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it depends how much you value your privacy.

Apple make their money from selling hardware (and increasingly from apps), so their objective is to give the user the best user experience possible. Apple products may cost a premium, but you're getting great quality hardware and a great user experience. Apple is very protective of users' privacy, and for that reason is strict on how apps interact with the OS and with each other.

Sure, Apple doesn't allow things like sharing songs between users. You might say that that is because Apple wants you to buy your own copy of the song from iTunes. Or it may just be because it is illegal! Apple have a very high regard for the law. That is why you can't get games in the App Store yet. Apple are negotiating to do it legally. Sure, in the meantime we lose out, but I do respect Apple's moral standpoint.

Google doesn't care if you're using iOS or Android. They make no money directly from Android. That is why they'll continue to make great apps for iOS.

In an ideal world, Eric Schmidt wouldn't have betrayed Apple while on their board, and today Google would be fully integrated in iOS. Maybe that'll happen in the future...
Click to expand...

You think Apple has your back when it comes to privacy? Come again

AURGgcD.jpg


What makes you think Apple's ads work any different than Google's on who and what they target?

The one is just open about it.
 
Shake&Bake said:
You're morally ok with what happens at Foxconn too?
So Android and other devices are too blame for Bluetooth technology and the immorality it spreads in the world? :rolleyes:

There's nothing that superior about Apple hardware that justifies the pricetag that comes along with it.
There's nothing about the iOS/Apple environment that could justify me having to tie my life down to iTunes.

Google's main revenue stream is ads.
Apple's is iTunes.

At least with Google, I can opt into what I want to share with them.
With Apple its all about control, about iTunes and the rest of the closed environment that is Apple hardware.
Click to expand...

Foxconn are not owned by Apple, and Apple are only one of their customers. Where do you think your Android phones are made?

Android isn't to blame for people sharing music on Bluetooth, but Google are also not doing anything to discourage it. Neither are Samsung or HTC (as far as I know). Should they? I don't know. But that is why Apple doesn't allow sharing of music.

Is the iPhone really more expensive? On Cell C the cheapest iPhone 5 package is the same as the cheapest S4. Both at R399 on the Straight Up 100. I'm not sure about the off-contract price, but if you can afford R6000 - R8000 for a phone, why wouldn't you just take it on contract?

Apple's income from iTunes is about 7%, iPhone sales 56%, iPad sales 20%. See the following:

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/applepiechart.jpg

The original point of this thread is that Apple's "closed" system prevents the full Google Now (and Facebook Home) experience. Try using Google Now without sharing personal data.

iTunes may have it's problems, but Google doesn't offer a native media player for the desktop. Why not? What do you use?

I can understand why people like Android, and there are some great Android phones. But it is far from perfect.
 
BruceA said:
Foxconn are not owned by Apple, and Apple are only one of their customers. Where do you think your Android phones are made?

Android isn't to blame for people sharing music on Bluetooth, but Google are also not doing anything to discourage it. Neither are Samsung or HTC (as far as I know). Should they? I don't know. But that is why Apple doesn't allow sharing of music.

Is the iPhone really more expensive? On Cell C the cheapest iPhone 5 package is the same as the cheapest S4. Both at R399 on the Straight Up 100. I'm not sure about the off-contract price, but if you can afford R6000 - R8000 for a phone, why wouldn't you just take it on contract?

Apple's income from iTunes is about 7%, iPhone sales 56%, iPad sales 20%. See the following:

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/01/applepiechart.jpg

The original point of this thread is that Apple's "closed" system prevents the full Google Now (and Facebook Home) experience. Try using Google Now without sharing personal data.

iTunes may have it's problems, but Google doesn't offer a native media player for the desktop. Why not? What do you use?

I can understand why people like Android, and there are some great Android phones. But it is far from perfect.
Click to expand...

Thing is - I don't have too much of an issue with the morality of my phone use, its origins or how I listen to and share media.
You bring up the morality issue - I throw Foxconn out there, because Apple promises to take their suppliers to task and they have.
Still the conditions are crazy at Foxconn "City" - how can you use an iPhone knowing the conditions those people work under?
Is your heart not heavy? How do you sleep at night? Knowing those poor, little Chinese people are being mistreated?
Basically what I'm saying is - don't throw the bottom of the barrel BS at this - screw morality.
You got any .avi movies on your Mac/PC?
Ever walked into a friend's home and told him that movie he's watching from his media player is illegal and walked out in disgust and contempt?
And then called the cops on them?

This is about freedom of choice.
I don't need Gestapo Apple, having me need to activate my phone from a notebook or desktop.
Having me bound to a desktop for software updates, for transferrring of music and movies. :erm:



You missed my edit in my previous post regarding pricing structures.

That cool factor that Apple had going for it wrt to exclusivity has been dwindling away over the last few quaters.
The financial drivers may be their hardware, but it all brings you back to iTunes, to your desktop, to that chord from your iPhone that you may as well tie around your neck :twisted: :p

And GoogleNow only comes into its own if you are sharing your personal data with it - that's what makes it work for me.
I've got no hangup on Google knowing where my meetings are.
Its a shame we don't have anymore info Live on it yet as with the US to make more use of it.
 
Last edited:
AlphaJohn said:
You think Apple has your back when it comes to privacy? Come again

AURGgcD.jpg


What makes you think Apple's ads work any different than Google's on who and what they target?

The one is just open about it.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with privacy issues with Google. I'm just saying that apps like Google Now are Google's way of accessing your personal data. They're not making apps like that just because they like giving away cool free stuff.

However, there is honestly not one app or feature on Android that makes me feel like I should switch.
 
Shake&Bake said:
Thing is - I don't have too much of an issue with the morality of my phone use, its origins or how I listen to and share media.
You bring up the morality issue - I throw Foxconn out there, because Apple promises to take their suppliers to task and they have.
Still the conditions are crazy at Foxconn "City" - how can you use an iPhone knowing the conditions those people work under?
Is your heart not heavy? How do you sleep at night? Knowing those poor, little Chinese people are being mistreated?
Basically what I'm saying is - don't throw the bottom of the barrel BS at this - screw morality.
You got any .avi movies on your Mac/PC?
Ever walked into a friend's home and told him that movie he's watching from his media player is illegal and walked out in disgust and contempt?
And then called the cops on them?

This is about freedom of choice.
I don't need Gestapo Apple, having me need to activate my phone from a notebook or desktop.
Having me bound to a desktop for software updates, for transferrring of music and movies. :erm:

You missed my edit in my previous post regarding pricing structures.

That cool factor that Apple had going for it wrt to exclusivity has been dwindling away over the last few quaters.
The financial drivers may be their hardware, but it all brings you back to iTunes, to your desktop, to that chord from your iPhone that you may as well tie around your neck :twisted: :p

And GoogleNow only comes into its own if you are sharing your personal data with it - that's what makes it work for me.
I've got no hangup on Google knowing where my meetings are.
Its a shame we don't have anymore info Live on it yet as with the US to make more use of it.
Click to expand...

Wow, what's with you and Foxconn. Do you know they also make the Kindle and PS3, as well as phones for many manufacturers. Apple have more than doubled the average salary of their workers.

It's years since you have needed a PC to activate an iPhone, and if you do have iTunes on a computer, you can sync wirelessly.

How does Google Now know where your meetings are? It can't figure out where mine are. Unless you type in a full street address into Google Calendar maybe?
 
BruceA said:
Wow, what's with you and Foxconn. Do you know they also make the Kindle and PS3, as well as phones for many manufacturers. Apple have more than doubled the average salary of their workers.

It's years since you have needed a PC to activate an iPhone, and if you do have iTunes on a computer, you can sync wirelessly.

How does Google Now know where your meetings are? It can't figure out where mine are. Unless you type in a full street address into Google Calendar maybe?
Click to expand...

You do realise that the bulk of my post is laden with sarcasm - but also to highlight that you're a bit hypocritical.
In the sense that you're taking the high road on piracy, but not human rights. :rolleyes:

Sync wirelessly with iTunes...why should I have to - and its a have to with an iPhone.
Why not get my from dropbox or some other cloud application or a friend's phone or tablet?

Google Now will know what I tell it.
Got a dentist appointment, I hit it up in my GoogleCalendar with all of the details - it'll let me know timeously about it, the driving time/conditions on the way there.
And that can extend to any meeting, appointment or dinner reservation.
If the business is on GoogleMaps, if I've decided to diarise an event, Now will steer things in my direction that I choose to have it give me.

It only takes the one time to get it done - the nice thing that my web browsing is synched to my mobile profile also helps.

Anyway - Apple needs to innovate on the hardware side for phones and tablets - slimming down and extending a screen is not going to be enough.
The peak of its share price has come and gone.
Dividends to be paid, etc - the once shining beacon of wonder has now come full circle to what it was like after Jobs left.
 
Shake&Bake said:
You do realise that the bulk of my post is laden with sarcasm - but also to highlight that you're a bit hypocritical.
In the sense that you're taking the high road on piracy, but not human rights. :rolleyes:

Sync wirelessly with iTunes...why should I have to - and its a have to with an iPhone.
Why not get my from dropbox or some other cloud application or a friend's phone or tablet?

Google Now will know what I tell it.
Got a dentist appointment, I hit it up in my GoogleCalendar with all of the details - it'll let me know timeously about it, the driving time/conditions on the way there.
And that can extend to any meeting, appointment or dinner reservation.
If the business is on GoogleMaps, if I've decided to diarise an event, Now will steer things in my direction that I choose to have it give me.

It only takes the one time to get it done - the nice thing that my web browsing is synched to my mobile profile also helps.

Anyway - Apple needs to innovate on the hardware side for phones and tablets - slimming down and extending a screen is not going to be enough.
The peak of its share price has come and gone.
Dividends to be paid, etc - the once shining beacon of wonder has now come full circle to what it was like after Jobs left.
Click to expand...

Oh, I recognise the sarcasm alright.

How do you get music from your PC (legal or illegal) to your phone? Copy it into Dropbox? Does that also sync playlists? I have over 100GB of music, so I wouldn't be prepared to pay for 100GB of Dropbox storage. What do you use to play music on your PC? Can you stream wirelessly from your PC or phone to your Hi-Fi?

As far as I can see, the Apple solution is far cleaner! Buy it on your PC in iTunes, and it'll automatically appear on all your devices. How could it be simpler?

I have my dentist's address in my Google contacts. If I make an appointment in Google Calendar to go to the dentist, why doesn't Google pull through his address automatically. Or offer a list of addresses. If I open a new appointment and call it "Dentist Appointment", will Google remember the address from the last Dentist Appointment? If I start writing the name of a restaurant for my "Dinner Appointment", does Google Instant start offering local restaurants? No. So I have to look up the address and type it in. Maybe it'll get there eventually, but Google Now takes way too much work to make it do it's magic.
 
If I were to buy me a Toyota Hilux "truck" is it for Toyota to make sure I do not smuggle perlemoen or guns in the back of MY vehicle?

Is it for Google, Samsung, HTC, etc to make sure I don't have pirated music and videos on MY device?

Why is Apple doing it? Google also sells music in their Play Store in the US so the Music Industry demands it argument won't stand. Google PlayStore customers are not restricted by Android to share anything fom device to device using Bluetooth/etc.

So, it must be about forcing Apple customers to use the iTunes shop to make money. But is the money made in enforcing this closed system worth it in the long run? More and more people, and the younger generations especially, demand more freedom. They don't want a company like Apple to tell them that they cannot share their music and videos.

Imagine Toyota trying to stop their customers from loading crates from one Toyota to another Toyota ...

But that is what Apple is doing.

That is my main frustration. It helps little they flatten the OS look but the damn device is still under lockdown because ... Apple says so.
 
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