Apple taking on the world

[Jola]

Do you think they should be able to patent software and/or hardware? Where do you draw the line?

Software is tricky, I am generally not in favour of it - but definitely not when it involves prior art, as Apple tends to do.

Hardware should be patentable, but not esoteric concepts such as a rectangle with rounded corners - that is pure BS !

 

[Sodan]

Software is tricky, I am generally not in favour of it - but definitely not when it involves prior art, as Apple tends to do.

Hardware should be patentable, but not esoteric concepts such as a rectangle with rounded corners - that is pure BS !

+1
Best post of the thread.

 

[cerebus]

Hardware should be patentable, but not esoteric concepts such as a rectangle with rounded corners - that is pure BS !

This whole rounded rectangle issue is a hugely overinflated piece of Samsung marketing. It wasn't even remotely the central argument of Apple's lawsuit.

 

[BruceA]

Software is tricky, I am generally not in favour of it - but definitely not when it involves prior art, as Apple tends to do.

Hardware should be patentable, but not esoteric concepts such as a rectangle with rounded corners - that is pure BS !

Is it Apple's fault that such a patent was granted, or is it a failure of the patent system?

 

[Jola]

This whole rounded rectangle issue is a hugely overinflated piece of Samsung marketing. It wasn't even remotely the central argument of Apple's lawsuit.

But Apple took a patent on it - doesn't that illustrate their whole attitude ?

I pity the poor Europeans when they have to start replacing all the Roman paving stones in Europe - those Romans were quite active during their long reign !

 

[Jola]

Is it Apple's fault that such a patent was granted, or is it a failure of the patent system?

Both.

But I would apportion the most blame to Apple for even havng the gall to apply for such a patent.

That they even applied says something about their ethics.

 

[BruceA]

Both.

But I would apportion the most blame to Apple for even havng the gall to apply for such a patent.

That they even applied says something about their ethics.

Then how should Apple protect the basic design of the iPhone? Should anyone be allowed to produce a clone?

There is supposedly a Chinese company that have already produced an Android version of the iPhone 5 based on all the leaked photos, and are threatening to sue Apple if they launch anything similar in China. Should this be allowed?

Samsung have a number of patents pertaining to LTE on mobile, and are threatening to sue Apple if they introduce LTE on the iPhone 5? Is this ethical?

 

[cerebus]

I just keep questioning and not getting a good answer, why Microsoft or Motorola or Oracle et al don't receive the same level of backlash as Apple here? It's fine, they're behaving unethically in seeking redress for trade dress patent art - but Samsung is a big rich company and they can afford it. Microsoft is bullying small developers, extracting license fees for the most egregiously vague UI claims I've ever encountered. Where's your spleen against them? Why the double standards of ethicality?

 

[Toxin]

Samsung have a number of patents pertaining to LTE on mobile, and are threatening to sue Apple if they introduce LTE on the iPhone 5? Is this ethical?

IMO, no. But then I don't agree with the lawsuits Apple are engaging either.

Like I said, this is why we can't have nice things. What if Samsung decides not to make the chips that Apple uses or the screens or anything else? Apple would go somewhere else I guess.

But why couldn't they just get together and sort it all out? Because Apple is losing market share..... and money is god after all.

 

[Jola]

Then how should Apple protect the basic design of the iPhone? Should anyone be allowed to produce a clone?

There was nothing unique about the shape of the iPhone, why should they be afforded protection ? It looks just like the 2006 Samsung Photo Frame, amongst many other devices.

There is supposedly a Chinese company that have already produced an Android version of the iPhone 5 based on all the leaked photos, and are threatening to sue Apple if they launch anything similar in China. Should this be allowed?

I suppose that if Apple can't protect their development process then it is their problem ? And in this case, after all the nonsense that Apple has been up to I would say good luck to the Chinese company.

Samsung have a number of patents pertaining to LTE on mobile, and are threatening to sue Apple if they introduce LTE on the iPhone 5? Is this ethical?

In this case, yes, because Apple have not paid Samsung one cent for the use of Samsung's 3G patents in previous iPhone models.

In fact I hope that Samsung gets the injunction that they are seeking prohibiting the importation of iPhone 5 phones into the USA.

 

[BruceA]

IMO, no. But then I don't agree with the lawsuits Apple are engaging either.

Like I said, this is why we can't have nice things. What if Samsung decides not to make the chips that Apple uses or the screens or anything else? Apple would go somewhere else I guess.

But why couldn't they just get together and sort it all out? Because Apple is losing market share..... and money is god after all.

The patent system, if implemented properly, should encourage innovation, and keep technology moving forward. Why spend millions on R&D if anyone can just copy your invention?

Tim Cook has a fiduciary duty to the Apple shareholders to make as much money as possible, but I believe that the lawsuit against Apple was based on Steve Jobs's threat to go "thermonuclear" on Android, because he believed Eric Schmidt betrayed him. Tim Cook and Larry Paige met last week, but I'm not sure if it was to reach an amicable solution, or whether Tim Cook threatened Larry Paige that Google should licence Android or face further lawsuits, based on their victory over Samsung!

 

[BruceA]

I just keep questioning and not getting a good answer, why Microsoft or Motorola or Oracle et al don't receive the same level of backlash as Apple here? It's fine, they're behaving unethically in seeking redress for trade dress patent art - but Samsung is a big rich company and they can afford it. Microsoft is bullying small developers, extracting license fees for the most egregiously vague UI claims I've ever encountered. Where's your spleen against them? Why the double standards of ethicality?

I agree entirely. The Apple haters have come out in force over one lawsuit which received a lot of publicity because it went to a jury trial, when these companies are all sueing each other all the time!

 

[Jola]

The patent system, if implemented properly, should encourage innovation, and keep technology moving forward. Why spend millions on R&D if anyone can just copy your invention?

Ideally yes. But it does not work if Apple sabotages the (already broken) patent system by patenting prior art.

 

[cerebus]

I agree entirely. The Apple haters have come out in force over one lawsuit which received a lot of publicity because it went to a jury trial, when these companies are all sueing each other all the time!

Microsoft is racketeering HTC and Samsung and Barnes and Noble behind the scenes, squeezing their already thin profit margins. To me that's FAR more unethical than Apple's suing of Samsung, since frankly everyone sort of realizes that yes Samsung did rip off Apple's designs.

 

[cerebus]

Ideally yes. But it does not work if Apple sabotages the (already broken) patent system by patenting prior art.

All this 'prior art' you're bringing up is incredibly spurious, if-you-sort-of-look-at-it-from-the-right-angle-with-the-keyboard-shut' stuff. The iPhone design was arduous and highly original as a sum of parts.

 

[Jola]

I just keep questioning and not getting a good answer, why Microsoft or Motorola or Oracle et al don't receive the same level of backlash as Apple here?

Because Oracle lost, and the other cases are not in the same league as this Apple-Samsung case. Also, billions of people walk around with phones in their pockets, but only a few thousand developers are affected by Microsoft's BS. But I am sure that many developers feel highly aggrieved by Microsoft's tactics.

 

[cerebus]

Because Oracle lost

1) Irrelevant.
2) Motorola just won an injunction against the XBOX due to h.264 licensing issues and ordered the stopping of sales. That affects the millions of XBOX users. Where's your outrage?

And the other cases are not in the same league as this Apple-Samsung case.

So the scale of it is what you object to?

Also, billions of people walk around with phones in their pockets, but only a few thousand developers are affected by Microsoft's BS. But I am sure that many developers feel highly aggrieved by Microsoft's tactics.

Adding up to $30 onto the price of an Android handset doesn't affect those billions of users? Come now.

 

[Jola]

All this 'prior art' you're bringing up is incredibly spurious, ...

No, it is not, the main patents that Apple sued on were all prior art. Including the Sumerian tablet shape.

The iPhone design was arduous and highly original as a sum of parts.

I am not denying that the iPhone as a whole was an original device.

Almost all devices are unique and different, I could mention thousands of them.

 

[cerebus]

No, it is not, the main patents that Apple sued on were all prior art. Including the Sumerian tablet shape.

You're just parodying yourself now, surely. So what form of design is patentable, please tell me?

I am not denying that the iPhone as a whole was an original device.

Yeah you kind of are.

Almost all devices are unique and different, I could mention thousands of them.

So iPhone didn't deserve to be patent protected?

 

[Jola]

Motorola just won an injunction against the XBOX due to h.264 licensing issues and ordered the stopping of sales. That affects the millions of XBOX users. Where's your outrage?

I don't have an XBOX

But, yes, I agree that is a major issue, and it goes much further than XBOX.

One of the issues, I suppose, is that SJ was an outrageous character, and made outrageous statements.

One thing that I can assure you, is that if I had worked with SJ I would have told him to FO in the first encounter that we had - not sure whether that would have made me a Star or a Bozo, I suppose that would just have depended on his mood that day.