Are EVs actually a socialist plot 😂

[Zellephant]

Disclaimer: This is only my own opinion, the title is admittedly clickbaity, and admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek and exaggerated, but only a little

(TLDR version: EVs, like all electronics will become disposable items, killing car culture entirely and locking us into a system of subservience to some AI powered EV overlord for all personal transport requirements. Making new cars boring, is part of the plot, so the pill is easier to swallow.)

I consider myself as a bit of a petrolhead. I grew up in a time where young boys were supposed to drool over cool cars. So obviously growing up I tried to read every issue of car magazine, and essentially binge watched Top Gear from the moment it was available in South Africa. Even though I was destined for a white collar life, I much to my fathers disappointment sometimes with the mess I left on the driveway, self taught myself motor mechanics, serviced my own cars, wasted my allowance buying and restoring heaps of junk, and generally living my petrol head wet dream.

As soon as I had a learners license, I began with advanced driving courses, and even got qualified as an advanced driving instructor, which meant throughout my student years I could make money working at Gerotech and Kyalami absolutely thrashing my dream cars, and teaching the lucky buggers who could afford to buy them what their cars were really capable of. I did this for Land Rover, Jaguar, Audi and BMW on a freelance basis for about 4 years. In this time I got to be part of various product launches, track days, media experiences and so on, and was always in the know about the coolest and latest in the car industry. But even then, it was clear analog beat digital from an experience point of view every time. The more “refined” cars got, often the less exciting they got, with a few stand out exceptions in between. But overall, cars were still exciting, both the new ones, and the older ones.

But somewhere around 10 years ago, I for the most part lost almost complete interest in new cars. There is hardly ever anything launched that is really interesting or exciting anymore. Design for the most part went “generic”, everything looks the same (and it’s ugly). Outside of some proper performance models, the driving experience is bland at best. There is way too much tech, thats supposed to make the cars “cool” but doesn’t for the most part, and actually a lot of the “tech” is really just cost cutting rebranded as cool features like replacing buttons with oversized, overcomploicated touch screens that no one asked for, or replacing rack and pinion steering with fly by wire electronic power steering.

But I think all of this was a precursor to begin socially engineering us to not really be passionate about cars anymore, so that we would easier accept the “forced” shift to EV’s under a guise of “saving the planet”, which is also a total farce anyway. EVs, for the most part do everything to remove the driver from the visceral experience of driving, while trying to convince us that self driving an and driverless cars are the future we all want.

One or two generations growing up in cars that bamboozle the kids with all the tech but non of the visceral joy of the road, and no one will care if we can’t just get into our own car and take on the open road, on our terms anymore. Add to that the fact that EVs will, like all other electronic gadgets become a disposable item, killing not only the used car market, but the entire enthusiast/classic car culture with it, while locking you into what will essentially become a lifetime subscription service with the EV provider of your choice, sounds decisively like a version of the socialist central control idea of “you will own nothing, and believe you are happy”.

 

[porchrat]

EVs get sold to us under the guide of saving the planet, but people keep ignoring how vastly superior an electric motor is for acceleration compared to internal combustion.

To me that's the fun part of a car driving experience. The part your inner ear can actually feel.

It isn't the EV technology that's stopping most of them being interesting. As you said the same thing has happened to ICE cars recently. They're all pretty boring.

The loss of that visceral experience isn't a fault of EV technology, it's because safety and manufacturing standards are changing.

 

[Smiggles]

which is also a total farce anyway.

Lol. Try wearing your suits in this weather.

 

[konfab]

EVs get sold to us under the guide of saving the planet, but people keep ignoring how vastly superior an electric motor is for acceleration compared to internal combustion.

To me that's the fun part of a car driving experience. The part your inner ear can actually feel.

It isn't the EV technology that's stopping most of them being interesting. As you said the same thing has happened to ICE cars recently. They're all pretty boring.

The loss of that visceral experience isn't a fault of EV technology, it's because safety and manufacturing standards are changing.

Interestingly, they are not that superior because of the heavy battery and basic physics. There is only so much torque you can actually deliver through rubber tyres.

This guy goes into the physics.

What EVs do is take that concept and try to use it to patch over the fact that they are very expensive and impractical compared to normal internal combustion engines.

 

[Johnatan56]

Interestingly, they are not that superior because of the heavy battery and basic physics. There is only so much torque you can actually deliver through rubber tyres.

This guy goes into the physics.

So they're still superior, and you get instant torque, for day to day driving, that's all anyone really cares about.

What EVs do is take that concept and try to use it to patch over the fact that they are very expensive and impractical compared to normal internal combustion engines.

How are they very expensive or impractical? You need to take into account cost of ownership, not purchase.

Electric doesn't have as expensive servicing costs, your mileage cost is often also cheaper. Cheatsheet here: https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/energy-consumption-electric-car with average being 190 Wh/km -> 19kWh / 100km (most modern are 145-160 though) vs cars being like 5-6l / 100km. So CoCT is R4.27/kWh at most expensive tier -> R60-80/100km, petrol is R20 -> R100-120 on economic cars. This is without someone going solar. Carbon fuel levy is also set to increase.

There's a different question about driving it in South Africa without as good charging infrastructure, but even there for most, your daily trips are all heading back home where you can charge in your garage. Have friends in Cape Town with electric cars, not been an issue.

Biggest issue with EV is that target market for it has been more expensive, and South Africa has the extra taxes on it (besides the already extra ad valorem and stuff triggering way too early on normal cars as no inflation adjustment in decades).

I am still interested in the VW Id. Polo since should be 30k EUR mark good specs vs current 40k+ for most EV's (also noticed the ID 3 dropped in price, nice). South Africa getting it at decent prices, doubtful. BYD has some interesting plug in hybrids, but there I'm always worried about safety ratings.

 

[porchrat]

Interestingly, they are not that superior because of the heavy battery and basic physics. There is only so much torque you can actually deliver through rubber tyres.

This guy goes into the physics.

What EVs do is take that concept and try to use it to patch over the fact that they are very expensive and impractical compared to normal internal combustion engines.

I disagree with darn near everything you've just said.

Only the initial cost of an EV is higher than the ICE car. Lifetime ownership cost in most countries is lower.

Whether or not they're practical also very much depends on how you use them. As city cars for example they're vastly more practical.

 

[Zellephant]

EVs get sold to us under the guide of saving the planet, but people keep ignoring how vastly superior an electric motor is for acceleration compared to internal combustion.

To me that's the fun part of a car driving experience. The part your inner ear can actually feel.

It isn't the EV technology that's stopping most of them being interesting. As you said the same thing has happened to ICE cars recently. They're all pretty boring.

The loss of that visceral experience isn't a fault of EV technology, it's because safety and manufacturing standards are changing.

Sure, when applied for outright performance, EV’s can have incredible acceleration, because they have all the torque from basically 0 RPM. But there is more to an exciting driving experience than outright acceleration (which, in any case, outside of the realm of a few hyper cars, and the odd dreary looking Tesla, no production EVs actually hold a massive advantage in). You can achieve very similar acceleration with well designed turbos with momentary overboost features, or with mild hybrid tech, without all the downsides of EVs.

Then, there’s the other things, like compromised handling and breaking in EVs due to the heavy motors and batteries. No matter how low you fit them, they still affect the cars performance.

And then again, previously a car didn’t always have to be a “high performance” model in order to be fun and excited to drive. Also, when it comes to emotive driving, it’s more than just outright acceleration. It’s a full body experience, including the sounds, and how it feels under breaking, and how it corners and and and.

Plus, the “acceleration” argument doesn’t solve for the fact that they will be disposable items like cellphones and laptops as time moves on - meaning no more enthusiast/car culture.

If you want outright acceleration that you can feel in your middle ears, and everywhere else. R200k can buy you a plethora of European performance SUVs and luxubarges that after 15 years can still do 4-5 second 0-100 pulls and more, carry a family of 4 safely on holiday and return 8l/100km fuel consumption on the open road. What current EV of even 3 times that price can do the same.

 

[B-1]

I would much rather have a small EV than a 1.5 internal combustion. It will be more fun, cheaper to maintain and run.

Torque makes you smile and electrics have plenty of it.

Sure of the ICE cars I've had that tuned 2l turbo noises were great and that v8 rumble was amazing but a good electric car is also fun.

In a perfect world one of each would be in my garage but I'm pretty sure I would jump in the EV more than I'd admit.

 

[Cray]

But I think all of this was a precursor to begin socially engineering us to not really be passionate about cars anymore, so that we would easier accept the “forced” shift to EV’s under a guise of “saving the planet”, which is also a total farce anyway. EVs, for the most part do everything to remove the driver from the visceral experience of driving, while trying to convince us that self driving an and driverless cars are the future we all want.

I can sympathise with a petrol head losing that freedom and rush but with the kind of idiots we have on the road in this country I would feel far safer with AI doing the driving instead of most of the people currently driving on our roads.(one the technology matures of course)

 

[neoprema]

No, EV's are the advancement of technology and the future of the automobile in one way or another.

The problem is, instead of focusing on the benefits of EV, and allowing natural progression to them, they decided to use climate change, guilt-trips and forced policies to push EVs in to the market and people naturally pushed back.

 

[BBSA]

It feels less like a grand social-engineering plot and more like corporate laziness, regulation, and manufacturers chasing margins over passion. EVs aren’t inherently evil; they’re just being oversold as a one-size-fits-all solution. The real concern isn’t petrol vs electric, but the shift toward sealed, disposable, subscription-based ownership. Car culture won’t disappear, it’ll just become more niche and more fiercely protected by the people who still care.

 

[saor]

But I think all of this was a precursor to begin socially engineering us to not really be passionate about cars anymore

That's how all technology works. Your washing machine becomes quiet & all electronics, your phone becomes a glass slate, your car becomes electric everything. It's just the natural flow of things. Not saying it's better, just that it's mostly inevitable. I'm more annoyed by the lack of tactile buttons in modern cars than I am EV's. I wouldn't mind an EV with analogue sensibilities.

 

[Zellephant]

It feels less like a grand social-engineering plot and more like corporate laziness, regulation, and manufacturers chasing margins over passion. EVs aren’t inherently evil; they’re just being oversold as a one-size-fits-all solution. The real concern isn’t petrol vs electric, but the shift toward sealed, disposable, subscription-based ownership. Car culture won’t disappear, it’ll just become more niche and more fiercely protected by the people who still care.

Interesting take, and probably more realistic than my extreme social engineering theory. But the fact that modern cars, amd especially EVs make driving them so unemotional, will certainly help towards getting the sheep to accept the disposable, subscription based system of ownership.

But I will be driving my (currently) 18 year old Range Rover till they pry the keys out of my cold dead hand. Even if that means I have to eventually start brewing my own bootlegged biodiesel to keep it going.

 

[Brian_G]

Some of us tend to just ignore the market, this is SA after all. How many people are really keen on the reliance on electric power to keep them going?

But most of all, petrolheads (only slightly one myself) don't get easily diverted. That said, we're a dying breed

 

[Zellephant]

That's how all technology works. Your washing machine becomes quiet & all electronics, your phone becomes a glass slate, your car becomes electric everything. It's just the natural flow of things. Not saying it's better, just that it's mostly inevitable. I'm more annoyed by the lack of tactile buttons in modern cars than I am EV's. I wouldn't mind an EV with analogue sensibilities.

I really don’t care about my washing machine becoming quieter. I have never had an emotional attachment to a washing machine. Most of the time i dont even know about it, unless it stops working and needs repair of replacement. Ditto my phone. It’s just a tool. I have no emotional attachment to it. But I don’t need either of them to hit the road north to Namibia, or cruise along Clarence drive or go chase snow in Lesotho. In an EV though, I would have a hard time doing any of those without at least my smartphone to talk to the incar apps, and set up my ride preferences, and find me suitable charging stations and and and…

Im all for analog when it comes to my roadtripping, dune bashing, life living, surf chasing adventures.

 

[porchrat]

Sure, when applied for outright performance, EV’s can have incredible acceleration, because they have all the torque from basically 0 RPM. But there is more to an exciting driving experience than outright acceleration (which, in any case, outside of the realm of a few hyper cars, and the odd dreary looking Tesla, no production EVs actually hold a massive advantage in). You can achieve very similar acceleration with well designed turbos with momentary overboost features, or with mild hybrid tech, without all the downsides of EVs.

Then, there’s the other things, like compromised handling and breaking in EVs due to the heavy motors and batteries. No matter how low you fit them, they still affect the cars performance.

And then again, previously a car didn’t always have to be a “high performance” model in order to be fun and excited to drive. Also, when it comes to emotive driving, it’s more than just outright acceleration. It’s a full body experience, including the sounds, and how it feels under breaking, and how it corners and and and.

Plus, the “acceleration” argument doesn’t solve for the fact that they will be disposable items like cellphones and laptops as time moves on - meaning no more enthusiast/car culture.

If you want outright acceleration that you can feel in your middle ears, and everywhere else. R200k can buy you a plethora of European performance SUVs and luxubarges that after 15 years can still do 4-5 second 0-100 pulls and more, carry a family of 4 safely on holiday and return 8l/100km fuel consumption on the open road. What current EV of even 3 times that price can do the same.

I'm saying there are ways to make EVs fun. Some of them are very fun. What you're describing is not a problem unique to EVs. You admitted it yourself, ICE cars are boring nowadays too unless they're a performance model. This is simply the way the whole automotive industry is moving. It's been moving that way for decades now. Long before EVs were mainstream like they are now.

I think the enthusiasts scene will simply change. There will always be that model of vehicle that captures someone's imagination. Where they keep it running well beyond the availability of spares. Expecting that scene to look the same for a new technology as it did for the old is not reasonable.

 

[Zellephant]

I'm saying there are ways to make EVs fun. Some of them are very fun. What you're describing is not a problem unique to EVs. You admitted it yourself, ICE cars are boring nowadays too unless they're an ultra-performance model. This is simply the way the whole automotive industry is moving. It's been moving that way for decades now. Long before EVs were mainstream like they are now.

I think the enthusiasts scene will simply change. There will always be that model of vehicle that captures someone's imagination. Where they keep it running well beyond the availability of spares. Expecting that scene to look the same for a new technology as it did for the old is not reasonable.

Which ones? Just provide one or two examples of currently available EVs that are fun (let’s keep it to models available to us in SA to buy, and cheaper than say R1.65Mil new)

 

[porchrat]

Which ones? Just provide one or two examples of currently available EVs that are fun (let’s keep it to models available to us in SA to buy, and cheaper than say R1.65Mil new)

Why the sudden limitations?

You're blanket saying a technology isn't fun as an inherent property of that technology. I'm saying that's nonsense.

We all know the South African experience is skewed horribly by vehicle prices and availability. That's not the case elsewhere in the world though. Why is that an EV problem to you and not a South African problem?

 

[HAL 9000]

So, you bought an EV for the range - then the carmaker slashed it | Auto Expert John Cadogan​

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

What EVs do is take that concept and try to use it to patch over the fact that they are very expensive and impractical compared to normal internal combustion engines.

to be fair to EVs, they have about 100 years of R&D catch-up to do still, EVs have been around forever, but they've only relatively recently received proper attention, proper R&D budgets and had to find product-market-fit and learn to scale etc ... the kind of things ICE producers have been doing for over a century already

they can certainly evolve much more still

Only the initial cost of an EV is higher than the ICE car. Lifetime ownership cost in most countries is lower.

which countries and which models are those?

pretty much every comparison I've seen require you to have a proper long "lifetime" before EV ownership gets cheaper, you also have to factor in the batteries are guaranteed to fail at some point and add the replacement costs to that calculation

I'm much less anti-EV than I use to be, but they most definitely still have a lot of catching up to do. Looks like their salvation is coming from China, pioneers like Tesla were never going to push the envelope and also mass produce to bring costs down. China said "hold my beer".

at least we can all rejoice in the fact that diesel has fallen out of favour, because fahk diesel!