Are you abusing your ADSL line?

Karnaugh

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noone said:
Oh and btw, seems everyone here fails to grasp the idea of a contention ratio and STILL applies linear maths to everything. Shame. You can run close to 4000 users (uncapped I might add) all on a 1meg connection and use barely 70meg of bandwidth if the contention ratios are correct.

By the way you're thinking, 4000 users will use 4000 meg or something.

Well thats because it is "linear maths" (look up graph theory).

4000 users all maxing out their connections with bittorrent and other p2p would use 1Mbps each, which would be 4000 Mbps (if connected to a single node).

I'm not sure how contention ratios change how much bandwidth people are using, unless they are being contended - in which case they won't all be getting 1Mbps all the time.
 

Spamtheman

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Oh and btw, seems everyone here fails to grasp the idea of a contention ratio

I didn't mention contention ratios with regard to the existing ATM network because I don't really know if Telkom contends directly at the DSLAMs or further on in their network. Yes contention ratios will increase the number of paying customers per DSLAM but it in no way increases the total capacity of the ATM link.
 

swordfish1

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MaD, how exactly did you figure that out "Throttling to 64k is a norm abroad"! Because I have not seen aything like that ...

I have seen abroad ADSL accounts which cost about R100 equivalent and do have 1-3GB caps, but along with this accounts they offer 50 and 100 GB caps for R300 equivalent or so. And many ISPs in fact do not limit the traffic at all. They say we have 256, 512, 1Mb package, choose what you want ... obviously on 256 kbps you will download much less than on 1 Mbit so that is calculated in their pricing!

So I have not seen any ridiculous offers abroad, like what we have here! And what we have here is not at all common overseas!
 

SnowWar

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Abuse haha. HTF can u abuse something when u actually use it to its full potential?!!!?...

*also let me just spit at the useless scum more commonly known as Telskum*

So to actually put it in in SA'can language: I've got a sweet new car with a 60L tank, but are only allowed to throw 10L of petrol into it every 2nd day or use it at 10km/h. All this just to make the roads a "safe" place, never mind if it takes me 3 days to get my pregnant wife to the hospital around the corner.

Morons...
 

EchoDown

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snowwar....that is just the analogy i was looking for man,hit the nail on the head
SHIBAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!
 

kaspaas

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Telkom will limit the growth of OpenSource initiatives. It will simply become way too expensive to download major Linux distro's such a SuSE. (between 3 and 4GBytes)

Currently I download the newest version of SuSE at teh end of the month.

How much influence does M$ have in Telkom? There is not much difference in their pricing strategies! :)
 

Spamtheman

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And due to their restrictive pricing of local bandwidth no one wants to host free content because not only are they making money off ADSL accounts they are making money off leased lines into the servers that could host such distributions.
 

AmaDownload

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Is there a remote chance Telkom want to preserve local bandwidth for their video-on-demand services?

Why don't they just give the bandwidth when its available, and take it away when others (on your path) are watching a demanded video?

Instead of capping us, which means the whole freaking network is maxed out the first days of every month, and sitting idling the last three weeks of every month?

Its not about data-volume, its about capacity and percentage utilisation..
 

dabean

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If they're really going to improve the usage tracker so much, how about a daily cap?

I could live with a gig or so a day.
 

AmaDownload

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If they are REALLY improving their usage tracking systems they would split national from international traffic, and apply a cap-size on par with global trends (like 20 gig/month) on international traffic only.

Then on local traffic they should apply a throttle each 24 hours, starting with unshaped access for the first gig, 64Kb/s for 2-4 gigs and maybe something lame (to keep connectivity open) like 4Kb/s for anything over…

But preferably I would like their usage tracker to allow unshaped unlimited (inter)national access on the speeds we subscribed to..
 

MaD

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If they implement changes which are worse/more restrictive than previously implemented then a decent price reduction is in order.
 

munwaal

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mmm.. maybe we'll get another R 80 off like the last time.. wouldn't that be AMAZING?!! :rolleyes:
 

MeMan

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OMFW... telkom are REALLY STUPID!!! FFS i mean lewk @ their "values" http://www.telkom.co.za/portal/page...mURL=/pls/portal/docs/page/company/vision.jsp
wot a load of TRASH... but erm they just doin this to make money ;/ well.. if they plan to do this... then priced should be scheduled to drop... and if they drop enough, most users could dump their telkom accounts and get uncapped accounts, for not much extra... eg if telkom drop their prices by say R200 (wishful thinking) and an uncapped account is R500 pm (also wishful thinking :p) then u only really paying R300 extra for a uncapped account... i think telkom is gona lose subscribers, and money, in this change... i really wish they would all just go and f*** themselves... wtf do they have to make life so hard :angry: !!!
 

Go†h_Li†e°²

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Dont make me laugh...abusing ones ADSL....what a utterly stupid point of view ..you pay for it dont you?? so why not abuse it!!!....it is yours to abuse until the cap is up!
 

munwaal

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MeMan said:
OMFW... telkom are REALLY STUPID!!! FFS i mean lewk @ their "values" http://www.telkom.co.za/portal/page...mURL=/pls/portal/docs/page/company/vision.jsp
wot a load of TRASH... but erm they just doin this to make money ;/ well.. if they plan to do this... then priced should be scheduled to drop... and if they drop enough, most users could dump their telkom accounts and get uncapped accounts, for not much extra... eg if telkom drop their prices by say R200 (wishful thinking) and an uncapped account is R500 pm (also wishful thinking :p) then u only really paying R300 extra for a uncapped account... i think telkom is gona lose subscribers, and money, in this change... i really wish they would all just go and f*** themselves... wtf do they have to make life so hard :angry: !!!

Welcome to myADSL, MeMan :)
 

onionpeel

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A lot of people think that because they pay a fee for a service, that is where it ends.
There is no 'unlimited bandwidth' and nothing is for free, unless you deal with charities.

Whenever you use a service, there is also an obligation on you not to abuse the service. Maybe it's not written in the contract, but if there are enough abusers, then the steps taken by Telkom are of the kind we will see. What is abuse? Apply the 'reasonable man' rule.

When an operator forecasts network utilisation, they don't assume that most of the people will be using the network 100% of the time at 100% capacity.

Perhaps the steps taken by Telkom are drastic, but something needs to be done about the abusers. Thanks to MaD for adding some balance to the discussion. To say that Telkom would have done this anyway in the absence of abuse, is pure speculation.

You want to talk about analogies? There are people/businesses who will think nothing of raping the our oceans just because they have a licence to use a fishing boat. There are people who will think nothing of get totally smashed at a pub becuase they are old enough to drink. What has happened to reasonable thought?

Because I need international connectivity throughout the month, my internet behaviour has been supressed/shaped by Telkom. I am therefore forced to operate 'within reason'. The time is soon coming when the rest of the abusers will have to too!

And before any of you think of replying to this post, please remember, "Play the ball, not the man".
 

kaspaas

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I agree: There should be measures in palce to prevent abuse.

Only, it is impossible to abuse Telkom ADSL at the current pricing.

There are simply not enough hours in a month to download stuff to justify the Telkom rates on the Telkom "slowband" services.
 

MaD

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One would think that if local wasn't raped to pieces after most people have reached their cap and immediately grabbed DC++ (or whatever program they use) then there may not have been a need to cap local...........

It could be a combination of that, and also people using ADSL for VPN's, VoIP and the uncapped services which have sprung up. We will have to wait and see if Telkom blocks Skype and punts their own VoIP software instead - probably charging for calls as well.
 

bwana

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kaspaas said:
I agree: There should be measures in palce to prevent abuse.

Only, it is impossible to abuse Telkom ADSL at the current pricing.

There are simply not enough hours in a month to download stuff to justify the Telkom rates on the Telkom "slowband" services.
I agree - besides - who gets to define abuse then? AFAIK Telkom forfeited that right when they instigated such an unreasonable pricing model. In a market that is so overpriced, an individual who doesnt utilize as much bandwidth as he or she requires simply isnt pulling their weight. Imagine going to a shop and paying r10 for a chocolate on the condition that you can only eat 1/2 of it - would you still buy it? I bought my chocolate and I'm a gonna eat it.
MaD said:
It could be a combination of that, and also people using ADSL for VPN's, VoIP and the uncapped services which have sprung up. We will have to wait and see if Telkom blocks Skype and punts their own VoIP software instead - probably charging for calls as well.
There's going to be hell to pay if they try blocking other VOIP services now that its been legalized.
 

Turtle

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onionpeel said:
Say you rent a line out to users and the capacity of the line is x. Shortly after reaching your 5:1 ration, all 5 users start to download at maximum, reducing the quality of service. You upgrade the line at your own cost
Only problem is that your analogy bears no resemblance to reality. In real life, out of every 20 of a large pool of users, you can predictably expect to have only 1 who downloads all the time, another 3 to 5 who download "much of the time", and the rest will basically use almost no bandwidth at all. It's a Zipfian distribution, and it's universal i.e. in every country in the world. Broadband companies factor these ratios into their pricing models already, in order to offer a flat rate service (where yes, light users do subsidise heavy users, as with many other things in life). An overseas monthly ADSL bill for +/- R200 already covers the "abusers", and still with profit to spare for the provider.

Furthermore Telkom ADSL is shaped, so your "non-abusive" Web browsing should be almost negligibly affected by someone else's "abusive" P2P downloading.

The argument (in another msg in this thread) that SAn Internet is more limited because of our "geographic location" is also just Telkom propaganda. If that were a problem, places like Australia and New Zealand wouldn't have far more affordable and faster broadband than us. It's not because our economy can't support it either; South Africa's GDP is 5 times that of New Zealand, while Australia's GDP is only 24% larger than ours. Telkom's profits are in fact further proof that our economy can support a better broadband infrastructure at pricing and specs in line with international norms. And actually, the international capacity infrastructure is already there - Telkom have the SAT-3 fiber cable running largely underutilized - the capacity is there, they just aren't using it, to keep prices high (and to prevent having to grow local BW infrastructure accordingly). Telkom could probably double SA's international bandwidth today if they wanted to, right now - all it would take is one phone call to Spain (IIRC), and a slight lowering of their monthly profits. In fact, a large percentage of South Africa's local bandwidth capacity is also currently lying unused - another great travesty of DoC policies. Of course, Telkom is also supposed to be investing in upgrading local bandwidth infrastructure too, but it seems they'd rather cut R&D in favour of executive bonuses and shareholder payouts at the expense of long-term growth.


Mad said:
One would think that if local wasn't raped to pieces .. then there may not have been a need to cap local
True; maybe as the SAn ADSL (and dial-up) userbases are growing the local infrastructure is starting to take strain, but Telkom doesn't want to spend any R&D money upgrading it?
 
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