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Question of the Day: Will you be subscribing to the new Disney+ R49 streaming package?
Roman4604
Executive Member
Hey Daffy,
Will be interesting, at the end of the day it will land up being Cisco's call.
If the usage of their Half-duplex VRF functionality is still quite prevelent amongst some of the more heavy-weight global telcos/ISPs, there may be enough pressure for them to update it to support IPv6.
Alternatively they could mandate the roadmap is to migrate to PPPoE Relay (over L2TP) for IPv6 support?
ShaunSA
Derailment Squad
Now that roman has posted i guess it's time to to start stocking candles too guys lol
Roman4604
Executive Member
Aaw not so bad.
My guestimate is locally we'll be forced to IPv6 for functional reasons before we run out of address space. The last remaining /8 blocks will be delegated equally amongst the RRs and AfriNIC's burn rate is far slower than the other regions.
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AfriNIC has been allocating IPv6 addresses since 2005. I have not had any problems getting IPv6 allocations.
AfriNIC are offering significant discounts on IPv6 address allocations and will give you the allocation for free if you are an existing LIR.
What reason did the give for declining your request?
I got my towel...I'm all good
yeah mostly harmless , bet they didn't know about telkom
I work for one of the big companies in SA and we have not started preparing for IPv6 yet. Incidentally we had a meeting with Telkom yesterday and we requested a class C mask. They are happy to give to us. Not once did they suggest we need to start the migration process. I know this is our call, but my point is, it sounds like they still have lots of IPv4 addresses to dish out. Also they did not even hint about their own IPv6 strategy. The aim of the meeting was not to discuss IPv6, but what I'm is that sure it should have come up when we started requesting IP addresses.
What I want to know is, with IPv6, who do we speak to, ISP's or Afrinic? Do I need to give strong motivation for this, or the obvious will do?
jetlee
Senior Member
Surely there must be millions of unused IP addresses .. old parked domains etc .. is there a really good reason why stealing some reserved IP ranges, and doing an "internet cleanup" wont yield a couple of million extra addresses ? which might extend the deadline a little further than 90 days ?? I bet some ISP's are sitting on thousands of unused IP's due to the perceived upcoming shortages ... maybe they should do a count of unused, yet allocated IP's ... I dunno .. seems like a mountain out of a molehill to me .. im just gonna go over here .. and put my head back in the sand .. 
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
<creepy movie trailer narration>
A world that relies on a single global network.... A protocol in its forth version... Now only 90 days are left.... until it all runs out.... IPcalypse NOW!!!
</creepy movie trailer narration>
Planes crashing, towers on fire and collapsing (insert random 9/11 footage), people in terror (big waves from 2012), more random epic end of world scenery...
Oh wait - we can NAT, stuff all that.
A world that relies on a single global network.... A protocol in its forth version... Now only 90 days are left.... until it all runs out.... IPcalypse NOW!!!
</creepy movie trailer narration>
Planes crashing, towers on fire and collapsing (insert random 9/11 footage), people in terror (big waves from 2012), more random epic end of world scenery...
Oh wait - we can NAT, stuff all that.
Surely there must be millions of unused IP addresses .. old parked domains etc .. is there a really good reason why stealing some reserved IP ranges, and doing an "internet cleanup" wont yield a couple of million extra addresses ? which might extend the deadline a little further than 90 days ?? I bet some ISP's are sitting on thousands of unused IP's due to the perceived upcoming shortages ... maybe they should do a count of unused, yet allocated IP's ... I dunno .. seems like a mountain out of a molehill to me .. im just gonna go over here .. and put my head back in the sand ..
Most of those are in active use. Domain names are cheap, but IP blocks usually gets re-used. You can ask some of the large holders (e.g. HP) to return theirs. But then they need to migrate all their internal machines, which cost a huge amount of money. At least as much as moving to IPv6 would. And someone would have to carry that cost. Estimates put this at a 18 month extension, though, so we don't gain much.
Ah yes, NAT. Or CGN, to be specific. I assume you would never again want a connection to be made to your own machine from the outside, as consumer-grade connections will be double or triple-NATed. Want a single dynamic IP? Get a business-grade account. P2P will be exceedingly hard to do (to the media industry's delight). As will VoIP. And WoW (P2P updates). And RDP. And SSH. And hosting your own server of an older game. Forum bans your IP? This affects the whole ISP. Enjoy your ban for what your neighbour did. Games that track multiple logins to deter clones - have fun explaining this one to them.
A single IP address can only have 65535 connections going at a time. If you have 1,000,000 customers and each of them use 100 threads (torrent, HTTP, etc), you will need 1,000,000,000 connections on your CGN. 160 IP's will do it, barely. But add to that the support cost of handing maxed-out and unstable CGN's. This will be a great amount of fun for all concerned.
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The_Unbeliever
Honorary Master
ba-pssssch
y2k redux
y2k redux
They've tried this before. The conclusion was that the addresses that they get back through cleanups are less than half the daily requirement. Its also an expensive process which most organisations probably won't start until they can earn some decent cash from selling the spare space.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
Simple - just make better routers that NATs better. Problem solved. Oh, and tunneling, that should fix it. <- add more buzzwords to flavour.
That type of banning should have been made illegal in the 80's. This just underlines the problem with it.
No amount of clever software or hardware can fix the hard coded limit of 65536 sockets per IP address. That is the fundamental flaw with large CGNs.
ISP's won't set up tunnels through their CGN for you. Unless you pay them. A lot.
Other than IP bans, how do you propose containing trolling on sites that allow for anonymous comments? Or do you propose that no comments may be made anonymous in such conditions? How do you propose differentiating a mass downloader (against the ToS) of a site with a legitimate user of the site, if they share an IP address? How do you propose sites like RapidShare that allows anonymous downloads for a limited number of files per day do their tracking?
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
Fundament flaw and CGN cannot be used in the same sentence because CGN is a fuindamental fix (not flaw). 65536 sockets are good enough if you use it wisely.
Simple - you will need to sign it or use an OpenID of sorts. This whole nonsense of using an IP address to see who you are is bullcrud, it may have worked in the 90's but its retarded and with the increasing use of NATing it is unreliable. IPs are there for one machine to talk to another - and that is the only reason we have IPs. Not to ban people or identify them, find other ways to do that.
So you believe anonymous free speech has no place on the Internet. Good to know.
Free speech laws protect unpopular speech. Popular speech (by its very nature) needs no protection.
In 2002 the US Supreme Court agreed with a filing that stated:
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2002/06/53265
In 2009 another court ruled that websites may be hosted anonymously: http://citizenvox.org/2009/01/09/a-victory-for-anonymous-free-speech-online/
Anonymous speech is one of the cornerstones of free speech. If you cannot have anonymous speech, it creates a chilling effect on the speech of people that have unpopular opinions.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
Really, how anonymous is it when they can trace your IP?
eCliPSe
Well-Known Member
This is a big problem. As Africa got the least amount of IP addresses. Africa should be the first to roll out IPv6 networks. But like most of my fellow network engineers have done for the last 2 years is say "IPv6 never going to use it in the next 10 years"
This change will ba a mad rush for the "IT Pros" to play catch up because they thought it wont happen anytime soon.
Ok to all the people calling it another y2k. LMFAO. Ignorants is biss for sure. Here are the facts. IPv4 wasnt intended for the current use on the size of the internet. The IPV4 pools where running out and along came NAT or Pat or Nat overload <what ever you want to call it and saved us a few years. With the amount of devices that can connect onto the internet its no wonder we are almost at the point where the switch needs to be made. IPv6 has great features and will make a 1million IP addresses available for every iinch of this planet Or an ip adress for each squre foot in the milkyway. Dont even get me started on redudensy and load balancing capabilities of IPv6.
The problem come when companies like Telkom isnt ready for the IPv6 change over. Then it could affect us all. Cisco Certifications has included IPv6 info and configurations for a few years now. Which is a great thing if your Cisco. ;D
This change will ba a mad rush for the "IT Pros" to play catch up because they thought it wont happen anytime soon.
Ok to all the people calling it another y2k. LMFAO. Ignorants is biss for sure. Here are the facts. IPv4 wasnt intended for the current use on the size of the internet. The IPV4 pools where running out and along came NAT or Pat or Nat overload <what ever you want to call it and saved us a few years. With the amount of devices that can connect onto the internet its no wonder we are almost at the point where the switch needs to be made. IPv6 has great features and will make a 1million IP addresses available for every iinch of this planet Or an ip adress for each squre foot in the milkyway. Dont even get me started on redudensy and load balancing capabilities of IPv6.
The problem come when companies like Telkom isnt ready for the IPv6 change over. Then it could affect us all. Cisco Certifications has included IPv6 info and configurations for a few years now. Which is a great thing if your Cisco. ;D
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I can go to an internet cafe if I wish to be anonymous. IPv6 has a mechanism that changes your public outgoing IP address every once in a while (30 minutes? I can't recall off-hand). The prefix is static, but that will change if you move to a different network.
Africa will likely be the last affected. We have the slowest burn rate of all the RIRs, and we are guaranteed another full /8 allocation early next year. AfriNIC got their last /8 in November, and they ask for a new allocation when they have half a /8 left, I think. So far, AfriNIC has only used up 196/8 (legacy allocation from IANA) and 41/8. So we have in essence got double our current number of IP addresses left free.