Article: Black bride brochure racism row

A graphic designer has accused the Afrikaanse Taal en Kultuurvereniging (ATKV) of racism over a wedding brochure for one of its resorts near Sun City, City Press reported on Sunday.

The designer, who did not want to be named because she did not want to create trouble for her former employer, spoke to the newspaper and forwarded it an e-mail to back up her claims.
 
I really cannot see the "real" racism here...

All I can see is the ATKV (the client) wanting something else, than the proposed template and/or design.

Seems the designer is hurt... should listen to your clients...
 
Is it not the same as a wedding venue that always have pork on the menu, use a Muslim couple?
Kind of pointless.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
I really cannot see the "real" racism here...

All I can see is the ATKV (the client) wanting something else, than the proposed template and/or design.

Seems the designer is hurt... should listen to your clients...
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grantza said:
There is no racism in designing an ad to appeal to a specific target market.
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Mila said:
Is it not the same as a wedding venue that always have pork on the menu, use a Muslim couple?
Kind of pointless.
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:wtf: it's blatant racism. None so blind as those who will not see
 
Well like they said. Black couple hasn't married there in the last 7 years. Seems the initial brochure wouldn't have worked that well.

People should study some marketing before giving comment.
 
joelus said:
:wtf: it's blatant racism. None so blind as those who will not see
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Why?

Because back people doesn't want to get married there?
Does black like me have a racist campaign because they don't use white people, and if the marketer uses a white lady she would not have been told to F off and use black people?

Target market. Black people doesn't use the venue. Do you think the pretty Muslim chapel in midrand will borrow me their church for an Aladdin themed wedding? I want to serve champaign when my guests arrive at church.
 
joelus said:
:wtf: it's blatant racism. None so blind as those who will not see
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And none so deaf as those who refuse to hear.
Careful now - your knee jerk reaction could cause you to lose balance & fall off that high horse of yours

All companies tailor their ad's to the target market they are trying to reach, or are you really blissfully unaware of the very fundamental basics of advertising & marketing
Tell us exactly why it's blatant racism ?

When last did you see, for example, a milk stout or carling black label advert featuring a 60ish Mrs Rabinowitz type person ?
 
joelus said:
:wtf: it's blatant racism. None so blind as those who will not see
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Explain in detail why it is blatant racism?

This City Press article continues on the MyBB article:

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/white-wedding-shocker/

...

“It’s not true. The little lady (dametjie) is not a racist and nor is ATKV. We are colourless,” said an executive director at ATKV, Schalk Cilliers, who was at pains to deny the designer’s allegations.

He told City Press it was about the market.

The email states that a black couple has not married at Klein-Kariba in seven years and that their “focus is not the black market”.

But, says Cilliers, the Klein-Kariba resort frequently attracts guests of all races to its conference facilities.

“At our resort in Natal we get a lot of Indian guests. In the Western Cape we have many coloured supporters. The truth is there is no real market for black weddings at our Klein-Kariba and Buffelspoort resorts. All she was saying is that the marketing material won’t work for the market there.”

There are in fact few black people outside of staff pictured on any of the ATKV’s resort websites (www.atkvresorts.co.za) though coloured people are prominent in the Western Cape resort and there are images of all races on all resorts’ conference facility pages.

The ATKV has in the past acknowledged that there are more non-white Afrikaans-speakers in South Africa than white.

“Look at our track record in the past 15 years. We are really reaching out to all races,” says Cilliers.

“We have been addressed twice by then president Mbeki and also by then president Mandela because we are a model for the preservation of language and culture.”

He added: “We are working with the department of tourism and with the hospitality industry to create social tourism. This targets people who haven’t had a chance to take holidays in the past. It turns out these are mainly black people. We have programmes where we are helping teach them how to take holidays.”
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In my opinion, the way that the designer acted, and especially with a client, is but one in many reasons why we struggle with social diversity within social groups.
 
I see where you guys are coming from, and am equally as appalled when the race card is overplayed unneccesarily, but to me, racism is about prejudging a group of people - generally in a negative light and/or preventing them from doing something based on the colour of their skin.

From the article:
In the e-mail the ATKV staffer reportedly asked that a black bride shown on the brochure for the Klein-Kariba holiday resort in Waterberg be removed because black couples "marry differently, want to party outside resort rules and at best come here to take photos at the dam".
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The staffer refers to the group as "black people" there's the race factor, and then there's the painting them as a people who will refuse to follow rules - hence a negative connotation.

While it isn't the worst example of racism that we've seen, it's pretty clear to me and that part has nothing to do with targeted marketing (other than saying why they're consciously avoiding marketing to people who are black because they don't follow rules).

How can you miss it?
 
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The targeting of a particular audience is fine and had the email simply said that the client is not satisfied because the design does not successfully appeal to the target audience it would be a different story but:
"marry differently, want to party outside resort rules and at best come here to take photos at the dam"
is outright racism and not acceptable.
 
Dean said:
I see where you guys are coming from, and am equally as appalled when the race card is overplayed unneccesarily, but to me, racism is about prejudging a group of people - generally in a negative light and/or preventing them from doing something based on the colour of their skin.



The staffer refers to the group as "black people" there's the race factor, and then there's the painting them as a people who will refuse to follow rules - hence a negative connotation.

While it isn't the worst example of racism that we've seen, it's pretty clear to me and that part has nothing to do with targeted marketing (other than saying why they're consciously avoiding marketing to people who are black because they don't follow rules).

How can you miss it?
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I cannot miss anything until I can see the original email published? Everything at the current stage is allegations made by an unhappy designer who wishes to be kept anonymous.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
I cannot miss anything until I can see the original email published? Everything at the current stage is allegations made by an unhappy designer who wishes to be kept anonymous.
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The quotation is inserted by the publication who also state - "forwarded it an e-mail to back up her claims"

So on the acceptance of the integrity and veracity of the publication you have no need to see the email - to quote another publication quoting another email or to quote another component of another email merely enforces you participation in a paradigm of relying on the media publications.
 
Paul Hjul said:
The quotation is inserted by the publication who also state - "forwarded it an e-mail to back up her claims"

So on the acceptance of the integrity and veracity of the publication you have no need to see the email - to quote another publication quoting another email or to quote another component of another email merely enforces you participation in a paradigm of relying on the media publications.
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Sorry Paul, not with you on this one.

The publication also state, reportedly:

In the e-mail the ATKV staffer reportedly asked that a black bride shown on the brochure for the Klein-Kariba holiday resort in Waterberg be removed because black couples "marry differently, want to party outside resort rules and at best come here to take photos at the dam".
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Reportedly means:

according to what some say (used to express the speaker's belief that the information given is not necessarily true).
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So in this regard I do not accept the integrity and veracity, so in my stance I would need to see the original email to provide an accurate comment based on my observations.
 
In the e-mail the ATKV staffer reportedly asked that a black bride shown on the brochure for the Klein-Kariba holiday resort in Waterberg be removed because black couples "marry differently, want to party outside resort rules and at best come here to take photos at the dam".

The staff member who was quoted in the resort manager's e-mail to the design company recommended that "if you must/want to use photos of colour, then rather a coloured couple".

The designer reportedly told the newspaper she was appalled by the comment.
Click to expand...

Focus on your target group dear.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
Sorry Paul, not with you on this one.

The publication also state, reportedly:



Reportedly means:



So in this regard I do not accept the integrity and veracity, so in my stance I would need to see the original email to provide an accurate comment based on my observations.
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This whole article is "reportedly". It is a newspaper report.
If you are not willing to accept (at least within the confines of this debate) the accuracy of a direct quote in quotation marks in the article, then you can't necessarily accept anything written in the article.

Does the designer even exist? Does the designer have email? Did the newspaper make up this whole story and all of its characters?

Sure there's a dispute over what was said and if the article is incorrect and the email in question did not say that, that will come out in due course. But we are all limited to commentating on the article itself as given, and until shown otherwise, we're saying that in it's current form we believe what was allegedly said in this alleged situation to the alleged designer was an alleged racist comment.
 
Dean said:
This whole article is "reportedly". It is a newspaper report.
If you are not willing to accept (at least within the confines of this debate) the accuracy of a direct quote in quotation marks in the article, then you can't necessarily accept anything written in the article.

Does the designer even exist? Does the designer have email? Did the newspaper make up this whole story and all of its characters?

Sure there's a dispute over what was said and if the article is incorrect and the email in question did not say that, that will come out in due course. But we are all limited to commentating on the article itself as given, and until shown otherwise, we're saying that in it's current form we believe what was allegedly said in this alleged situation to the alleged designer was an alleged racist comment.
Click to expand...

allegedly
 
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