Article: Iranians are "uncivilised"

[PeterCH]

I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of ...

What BS. Of course the Iranians are acting uncivilised. You don't parade soldiers on TV, make them sign confessions, etc. A soldier is a tool of the government. He gets his orders, he carries them out. These captured soldiers (marines/sailors) have to obey the orders of their commanders, who in turn obey the orders of the policy makers of their governments. I would understand parading a SPY around for the cameras (if his existence was
denied by the opposing government) but parading ordinary soldiers who may or may not have ventured into Iranian waters is barbaric.
You can detain them and blame their government but blaming the soldiers
personally is BS even if they did this of their own will.
These confessions are also BS. Whatever the troops' personal feelings may be, and I doubt they are against their nations anyhow, these things are irrelevant, a soldiers job is to obey orders. Even if these marines had pro-Iranian sympathies (I doubt this very much) these are irrelevant.

It's like taking your anger out on a piece of hardware, say a hard-drive in your PC if it crashes, instead of blaming the manufacturer for shoddy workmanship.

 

[PeterCH]

You cannot get more serious than the Geneva Convention. It also mandates access to prisoners by organisations such as the Red Cross. Iran has not even told anyone where the prisioners are.

I may be mistaken, but since no war actually exists between Iran and the UK, the Geneva Convention may or may not be applicable here but other international laws or conventions may. Notwithstanding this, it's a stupid
act of the Iranian government to parade these guys around. Capturing them is one thing, and releasing photographs as proof (in case the capture was denied) would be acceptable but making videos, and 'policy' statements by
ordinary soldiers is silly.

 

[Darth Garth]

You cannot get more serious than the Geneva Convention. It also mandates access to prisoners by organisations such as the Red Cross. Iran has not even told anyone where the prisioners are.

And what about Gitmo ???.
US and Brits are in no moral condition to make any demands from the Iranians.

 

[noxibox]

They also kill people for being gay. Not even Bush & co are that bad.

But his home state does imprison people for it. Given his attitudes he would probably have them executed if he could.

 

[krycor]

Yeah, legal marriage (and consummation thereof) for 9 year old girls, is highly civilised.

ROFL u should look at US + SA stats of pregnancy and age groups + sexual activity ages. Hidden promiscuity more civilised?

 

[froggytoo]

They still beat the crap out of South Africa and Africa where civility is concerned.

 

[JayM]

ROFL u should look at US + SA stats of pregnancy and age groups + sexual activity ages. Hidden promiscuity more civilised?

Yes, having paedophilia illegal is more civilised than having it legal. Anyone who disagrees with that needs their head read. We're talking about government sanctioned rape of 9 year old girls by men 40+! And yes, SA has some of the worst rape stats in the world, but at least there is the possibility of putting the offender behind bars, and our constitution is light years ahead of most in terms of human rights, gender equality, and other trivial things like that.

The vast majority of SA is in fact more civilised than Iran, because we don't see rape as being acceptable - it's only a few who commit the crime who are tarnishing our image. It is one thing to have these heinous crimes committed, but they've made them legal!

 

[JayM]

But his home state does imprison people for it. Given his attitudes he would probably have them executed if he could.

Link please? I'm having trouble finding any references to this. At any rate, it's not as severe as being killed for it.

Disclaimer: I am in no way a Bush supporter, and think he's a loon. The discussion here is about Iran as a country being "uncivilised", which I firmly believe is the case.

 

[bwana]

And what about Gitmo ???.
US and Brits are in no moral condition to make any demands from the Iranians.

The UK has nothing to do with Guantanamo Bay.

 

[Darth Garth]

The UK has nothing to do with Guantanamo Bay.

They are an ally of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan ... they are just as responsible.

 

[bwana]

They are an ally of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan ... they are just as responsible.

That's a tenuous argument at best. Gitmo is a US Navy base and to think that the UK has any influence about what transpires there is just plain wrong.

 

[kilo39]

That's a tenuous argument at best. Gitmo is a US Navy base and to think that the UK has any influence about what transpires there is just plain wrong.

Fact of the matter: UK has accepted all US policy and action in the middle east. Do they not have troops in Iraq? Notice people tossing the Geneva Convention around. Pity GB threw that one out the window (in his grand war of terror.)

Yeah, legal marriage (and consummation thereof) for 9 year old girls, is highly civilised. They also kill people for being gay. Not even Bush & co are that bad.

Since when is everything a measurement? Two wrongs do not make a right! And masking tape, torture, illegal imprisonment, kidnapping is definitely not a right!

GB and Texas has the second highest score in the world for putting children to death (I seem to remember only China outnumbers them.)

Check into Amnesty Int. (it's all there.)

 

[JayM]

Fact of the matter: UK has accepted all US policy and action in the middle east. Do they not have troops in Iraq? Notice people tossing the Geneva Convention around. Pity GB threw that one out the window (in his grand war of terror.)



Since when is everything a measurement? Two wrongs do not make a right! And masking tape, torture, illegal imprisonment, kidnapping is definitely not a right!

GB and Texas has the second highest score in the world for putting children to death (I seem to remember only China outnumbers them.)

Check into Amnesty Int. (it's all there.)

Please supply a link - Amnesty's site is quite extensive. Anyhow, the original topic title was to do with Iranians being uncivilised - I was merely posting evidence in favour of that statement. Mad Bush and co are not the topic, because, as you say, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[kilo39]

The Death Penalty Gives Up On Juvenile Offenders
Since 2000, only five countries in the world are known to have executed juvenile offenders: China, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Iran, Pakistan, and the United States. Pakistan and China have abolished the juvenile death penalty, but there have been problems in nationwide compliance with the law.
-
In the past five years, the United States has executed 13 juvenile offenders. Eight of these executions took place in the state of Texas. The rest of the world combined carried out five such executions. The United States accounts for four of the last five known juvenile offender executions in the last two years.

(was just about to post it)

 

[JayM]

Thanks - but as you can see, Iran is listed there too. They've also put to death 100s of homosexual people for no other reason than being gay - hardly civilised. I don't doubt that the US and other countries do absurd stuff like this too, but Iran is right up there with the worst when it comes to human rights violations.

 

[kilo39]

Please supply a link - Amnesty's site is quite extensive. Anyhow, the original topic title was to do with Iranians being uncivilised - I was merely posting evidence in favour of that statement. Mad Bush and co are not the topic, because, as you say, two wrongs don't make a right.

You were making two wrongs a right (by assuming they do all wrong. Which is not true. You then post in support of GB and crew (and Tony Blair) when in fact these are the biggest criminals of all (ja, very happy to jump on the bandwagon when it comes to Iran.)

Now: who is uncivilised?

 

[JayM]

I in no way support GB and Blair. I was merely posting a comparison.

 

[kilo39]

I in no way support GB and Blair. I was merely posting a comparison.

There is no comparison. And that is exactly the point.

 

[JayM]

Would you say that Iran's laws regarding human rights are more civilised than western nations then?

 

[JayM]

From Amnesty:

Iran continues to sentence child offenders to death, despite signing up to international treaties that expressly prohibit this heinous practice. It was the only country to execute children in 2005. In 2006, it shares this invidious position with Pakistan – the only other country to have executed a child so far this year.

According to AI figures, Iran executed eight child offenders in 2005. It carried out its first child execution of 2006 on 13 May with the hanging of an unnamed 17-year-old boy. He was executed along with an unnamed 20-year-old man, in Khorramabad, the capital of Lorestan province.