Article: No fracking for now

This isn't really a blow against the fracking effort is it ?

I can't imagine that the original plan was to bring in the heavy machinery on day 1, and start haphazardly drilling holes ? Obviously extensive research would need to be done.
 
The only reason it's stopped for now is 'cos some official hasn't received its kickbacks yet.
 
They are wide-eyed and articulate bigots driven by ideology in complete disregard of the science.
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Yup - the scientists were right about 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, thalidomide, Bhopal, the Gulf oil spill, Love Canal, Tokaimura, Minamata Disease.........
 
Someone please educate me on fracking. How do they extract the gas by blowing up the earth to make cracks without the gas leaking into the underground water? Keep it simple and short please.

I'm undecided on fracking because i know little to nothing about it.
 
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Vegeta said:
Someone please educate me on fracking. How do they extract the gas by blowing up the earth to make cracks without the gas leaking into the underground water? Keep it simple and short please.

I'm undecided on fracking because i know little to nothing about it.
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I don't think there is any simple or short answer. There are plenty arguments both for and against, only thing you can do is do a bit of reading if you are interested (OK actually quite a bit of reading, but you'll get the idea once you get started)

I haven't yet made up my mind if I think it's a good idea yet or not ... and I've read plenty ...

For some reason though I just can't seem to bring myself to believe big business and gauvamint when they tell me " Just trust us, we have your best interests at heart " ... but maybe that's just me :rolleyes:
 
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How many of you that are for fracking actually live in the Karoo? I think maybe you should let those that live, work, farm etc there decide. I am sure your attitude would be different if it was happening in your town.

I personally do not care either way about fracking, I just dont agree that supposed economic benefit will enrich more then a handful of government officials and business people.
 
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Vegeta said:
Had a quick read seems inevitable that the underground streams will become contaminated. They don't say how they prevent this if at all
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No its not inevitable, argh. These mis-truths are irritating as heck. Not only is the fracking fluid more dense than water, it would have to go upwards against gravity more than 1000m to reach normal water. Now when is the last time you saw a fluid running uphill?
Granted, if the well is very shallow (ie closer to the aquafer), then the risk increases. But most wells are far enough below the aquafer that its its highly highly unlikely that contamination would occur

edit: you could also get the gas seeping into the aqaufer, but if you build the pipes leading down half decently, thats a non issue. And then its usually only "small" amount of gas from the smaller, shallower wells.
 
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Archer said:
No its not inevitable, argh. These mis-truths are irritating as heck. Not only is the fracking fluid more dense than water, it would have to go upwards against gravity more than 1000m to reach normal water. Now when is the last time you saw a fluid running uphill?
Granted, if the well is very shallow (ie closer to the aquafer), then the risk increases. But most wells are far enough below the aquafer that its its highly highly unlikely that contamination would occur
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Gas travels upwards and it will through the cracks & channels created by the you know.. explosion
So if any cracks connect the gas to the water surely the gas will travel through these channels and the two will meet no?

Again i know nothing of the subject I haven't watched any documentaries and I'm not being bias. I'm just trying to figure this out. I'm not against or for fracking at this point.

I'm asking HOW do they prevent the methane gas and water from mixing? Please help me understand
 
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Vegeta said:
Gas travels upwards and it will through the cracks & channels created by the you know.. explosion
So if any cracks connect the gas to the water surely the gas will travel through these channels and the two will meet no?
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There are already existing layers of earth that prevent the gas travelling upwards. Otherwise there wouldnt be a well at all (the gas would have escaped long ago). So there are two ways that I know of that the gas can get into the water supply. One, through poorly sealed sections of the "pipe" that gets put in, or if you hit an already existing fracture that passes through the gas layer and the water layer (and then you hit the fracture letting the gas escape into it, and all connected layers). The first is controlled by having construction guidelines, rules, etc. The second with proper geological surveying. The casing around the pipe is also there the prevent the fracking fluid from contaminating the water supply. That casing iirc is 200mm+ thick steel, and then cement poured around that too. I found a simple picture that might explain things better (link)

And no explosions, the hole is drilled with existing mining methods
 
Archer said:
There are already existing layers of earth that prevent the gas travelling upwards. Otherwise there wouldnt be a well at all (the gas would have escaped long ago). So there are two ways that I know of that the gas can get into the water supply. One, through poorly sealed sections of the "pipe" that gets put in, or if you hit an already existing fracture that passes through the gas layer and the water layer (and then you hit the fracture letting the gas escape into it, and all connected layers). The first is controlled by having construction guidelines, rules, etc. The second with proper geological surveying. The casing around the pipe is also there the prevent the fracking fluid from contaminating the water supply. That casing iirc is 200mm+ thick steel, and then cement poured around that too. I found a simple picture that might explain things better (link)

And no explosions, the hole is drilled with existing mining methods
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Sounds much better!

How do they ensure the construction guidelines & rules are followed here in Africa where we see poor policing of most things?
How do they ensure proper geological surveying is done? Do we trust them?
 
@Archer. Are you saying that cases of chemicals associated with fracking had leaked into ground water are false? Most notably a fairly recent report out of Wyoming confirmed by the EPA.
... and are well blowouts just a myth perpetuated by the greenie-beanies?
On Friday afternoon, The Calgary Herald reports, fracking at one oil well in Alberta caused a blowout at another oil well a kilometer away.

Fluids blasted deep into the earth under high pressure appear to have intersected underground with the second well, forcing oil up through the well bore at explosive rates.
A witness saw what appeared to be oil and chemicals spewing into the air.

"We're still not quite sure what happened," said Scott Ratushny, Midway Energy's chief executive. "We're still investigating it, but something allowed the frack to carry into the same zone, 130 to 140 metres away (underground),"

The company, through Canyon Technical Services, was finishing a 16-stage hydraulic fracture at about 1,400 metres when the rupture occurred. Approximately 50 cubic metres of oil, fracturing fluid, nitrogen and sand were spilled on the surface and have been recovered from the site, Ratushny said.
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Seems fluids can infact travel upwards contrary to the effects of gravity ... just saying

In any case I really think both sides of the equation need to be weighed up. There are definite economic reasons to extract the natural gas, but I doubt the process is anything close to as safe and environmentally friendly that guavamint and big business would have us believe
 
Vegeta said:
Someone please educate me on fracking. How do they extract the gas by blowing up the earth to make cracks without the gas leaking into the underground water? Keep it simple and short please.

I'm undecided on fracking because i know little to nothing about it.
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I will try to be non-technical on the process

- The rocks in the deep earth are in natural state (Intact) and contain natural gasses trapped inside the rock
- Boreholes are drilled vertically into the rock to intercept the rocks which contain the target gas
- Fracking injects a mixture of sand, chemicals and water into a borehole at high pressure
- The pressured mix is will cause rock to fracture, cracks will open
- The opened cracks will be filled by sand particles. Gas will flow through the voids between sand particles and the rocks up the borehole
- Gas is stored and piped to the market
- Some water is recovered, retreated and reused

Obviously this process like Mining will have negative impacts:

- The virgin stress of the rock will be changed. Introduction of fractures means weakening of the rock. It means change in the stress state of the rock
- High pressure pumping of water will increase the pore-water pressures in the rock. In areas where the rock has natural structural discontinuities (faults, jointing, bedding planes), water will decrease the shear strength of the rock (cohesion, friction) and may introduce slip (seismicity, minor earthquakes)
- The natural hydrogeology of the area will be disturbed. Fracturing of an intact rock will introduce new water flow paths. If the water is contaminated (fracking chemicals and methane), it may impact on the groundwater.
- Natural gasses in rocks contains some levels of methane.

The important aspect to consider in any project is transparency on the negative environmental and social impacts. It is important to highlight hazards, risks and consequences for effective management.
 
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Some numbers - make of them what you will.

The amount of water per frack per well:
+-20 million litres.
In the USA this volume is about 16.5 million litres, but the wells will be deeper in SA and therefore more water and chemicals will be required.



Size of the well pad:
Minimum of 1 hectare to about 2.4 hectares. According to Shell up to 32 wells per well pad can be drilled and fracked. 



The average South African plot was around 550m2 during 2002 (http://www.bis.org/publ/bppdf/bispap21l.pdf). Based on this fact, between 18 and 42 South African plots/houses can fit onto one well pad!

How many truck trips per well just for the water?

According to EPA: about 1600 just for the water. Pennsylvania DEP (Department of Environmental Protection) figures indicate 1667. These are likely to be more in SA, depending on where the water will be sourced from.



How many truck trips required for equipment and other materials?
750 truck trips

Calculation of water usage and truck trips per well pad 

Assuming 20 million litres per well, and 32 wells per well pad, along with the above figures:


To frack 32 wells (one well pad of 1ha – 2.4 ha), 55 344 truck visits to the well pad site.




Shell calls 50 pads a “development area”. Per “development area” 32 billion litres of water will have to be used.
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dlk001 said:
The important aspect to consider in any project is transparency on the negative environmental and social impacts. It is important to highlight hazards, risks and consequences for effective management.
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Thx for the explanation sounds very very risky. And there is very little incentive for the oil company to care.
 
how long does these "mines" stay on site? How long before the gas is finished?
 
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