Article: No fracking for now

DJ... said:
I know Thebe inside out having done a lot of work with and for them over the years. They are a solid company, regardless of their ANC links. I despise this argument about it obviously failing because a trust with little board control over Thebe who might partner with Shell at some point could be involved to some degree. Operationally it will be controlled by Shell. Financially, the risk is Shell's based on who they choose to partner with. Your tax rands are safe...
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Never said it would fail. I just find it ... errm ...."interesting" that yet another project involving massive amounts of money is being directed to a company with such obvious cANCer links.
Seems you have drawn your own conclusion of obvious failure ...

With your indepth knowledge of the company, when you comment "might partner with Shell at some point" are you saying that Thebe is not necessarily the preferred empowerment partner of Shell, and that should shale gas mining in the Karoo go ahead, Shell would not require a local empowerment partner or might choose someone other than Thebe.
Not being facetious here, I'm genuinely interested to know
 
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daveza said:
Yet the US govt appear to have decided the need for disclosure trumps one's intellectual claims -



Does this not imply the secrecy around fracking chemicals has been looked at and found wanting ?
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It implies that they will allow fracking if it's safe.
 
McSack said:
With your indepth knowledge of the company, when you comment "might partner with Shell at some point" are you saying that Thebe is not necessarily the preferred empowerment partner of Shell, and that should shale gas mining in the Karoo go ahead, Shell would not require a local empowerment partner or might choose someone other than Thebe.
Not being facetious here, I'm genuinely interested to know
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Shell don't have to in terms of the Thebe/Shell MOU. It is on a project basis but they are the preferred partner. If they did partner it would not be on the operational side at all. Thebe might manage local treasury, payment, insurance, banking, funding etc functions.

And no I've made no such assumptions about the overall efficacy about anything. I'm merely pointing out that making such assumptions yourself is ridiculous...
 
DJ... said:
Shell don't have to in terms of the Thebe/Shell MOU. It is on a project basis but they are the preferred partner. If they did partner it would not be on the operational side at all. Thebe might manage local treasury, payment, insurance, banking, funding etc functions.
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Well Thebe is an investment management company not mining/manufacturing operations so I guess that stands to reason
Thanks. Interesting to know
DJ... said:
And no I've made no such assumptions about the overall efficacy about anything. I'm merely pointing out that making such assumptions yourself is ridiculous...
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Again... I made no assumptions about any chance of failure.
You are welcome to believe whatever you want cuz, but you cannot deny that there are never-the-less many examples of deals being awarded based on political coziness with the ruling elite ... and that goes for every country on the globe, not just south africa. Doesn't make it OK as far as I'm concerned and I feel strongly that any such cushy relationships should be exposed to the light as far as possible.
I'm not saying everyone has to believe that this is the case for this particular deal/company, but the connection is there. People should draw their own conclusions based on information available to them. In this case you have provided your additional opinion based on your dealings with the company... I'm doing some more reading on Thebe and their relationship / other deals involving Batho Batho
 
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McSack said:
Again... I made no assumptions about any chance of failure.
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Then why try to create the impression with links to Batho and Thebe? What was the point of that if you weren't implying it will cause problems?
 
DJ... said:
Then why try to create the impression with links to Batho and Thebe? What was the point of that if you weren't implying it will cause problems?
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Why would it cause problems? More like this is just the kind of relationship that would ensure that the deal goes through ... ie that the "right company" gets the mining rights .
Just like the "right company" got to supply boilers at Medupi and Kusile power stations, another "right company" got a massive materials handling contract for Eskom and if not for the exposure and outcry, another "right company" would right now be collecting massive amounts of money for doing nothing other than hijacking mineral prospecting rights at Sishen

[edit ... before I forget .... IMHO of course]
[edit2 ... I'm not implying the Thebe would not be adding any value, just that the political connections might go a long way towards influencing the outcome of what happens in the Karoo]
 
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Fracking will have little benefit to any of us. South Africa's economy will run far better by correcting what it already has in place. If we decide to let an oil company in, it will just harm the country and no one will benefit from it, except for politicians.

I just wonder if there is any choice we have... It will definitely go through, these guys always win. If we resist, we'll probably be raided like Iraq...
 
I think economically there could be plenty benefit

I don't however think our government is equipped to deal with the control and application of accountability necessary to make sure there isn't a raping and pillaging such as hasn't been seen since the days of Ghengis Khan out there in the Karoo

There just seems to be far too much secrecy and lack of information / mis-information surrounding what is really going on
 
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The money won't trickle down to the people that need it. The ZAR will not strengthen...

Besides, money can't make water, earth, air, or lives. It is paper. People will die, people will get diseases, the Karoo will be known as mining territory and will be avoided.

If South Africa uses it's HUMAN resources properly we can become a super power. We don't need any of this...
 
What does the oil company get out of it? More resources.

What does the government get? loads of money.

What do the people living there get? Loads of money.

What do the people that matter most - my future childs, childrens, childrens, childrens, childrens, childrens ---> 400 years from now? A ****ed up country.

Stop the exploitation!
 
Saw this article:
A fracking good story

Looks like fracking is doing better than so-called green technologies at combating CO2 production. Greeny beanies should rejoice about fracking in SA...
 
Archer said:
Yip.

For the last time, gasland is one heck of a piece of BS. If you are basing your opinion on that, you are sadly misinformed. Get the real facts, learn about the real risks and dangers, and make an informed decisions. But please, not that gasland poo poo
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Doesn't sound like 'Poo-Poo'.
It's rated 7.7 on IMDB which indicates a class movie.

http://edendale.typepad.com/weblog/...-on-the-attack-against-josh-foxs-gasland.html

Don't believe everything that you read.
 
Mach III said:
Don't believe everything that you read.
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Dont believe everything you see. Oh look, back to square one. Plus its hilarious how you put stock in a movie just because it has "good" ratings

I say again, get some real facts. You are going to have a bad time if you are putting your belief into someone who admits to lying in his movies. Like that famous scene where he lights the tap water: He knowingly leaves out the part where the gas problems in that area were naturally occuring, since the 1970's. Yip, what a stand up guy, leaving out (as he puts it) "irrelevant" facts.
 
Millions of liters of water used and environment pollution. If they can guarantee that the water used will be reusable and that there will be environmentally degradable chemicals used then I'm happy with fracking.

Are these facts good enough?

http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...ments/Hydraulic Fracturing Report 4.18.11.pdf

"They are using chemicals that they cannot identify themselves"

"The oil and gas service companies used hydraulic fracturing products containing 29
chemicals that are (1) known or possible human carcinogens, (2) regulated under the Safe
Drinking Water Act for their risks to human health, or (3) listed as hazardous air pollutants under
the Clean Air Act. These 29 chemicals were components of 652 different products used in
hydraulic fracturing. Table 3 lists these toxic chemicals and their frequency of use."
 
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