Article: SAPS spend R161million on private security

Alestorm said:
The reasons in the article alone are more than enough to see why you shouldn't use police for guarding duties. What reasons do you have for using trained, comparatively highly paid police officers to guard buildings when they are so desperately needed for police work?
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Actually, if the police had been doing their jobs all along over the last 16 years (with the full backing and support of the government), private security firms would not be needed (and would not be the massive industry that they are today). I agree that police should not have to be security guards standing guard over buildings... but that is because I believe the police should be so effective that buildings and homes should not need to guarded from rampant criminals. The first duty of the state is to protect it's citizens, but the ANC government says "bugger that, we'll just shave some of the public funds off for our own personal uses - no questions asked, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and let the stupid public hire their own security guards at their own expense!"

Guarding buildings.... ESPECIALLY POLICE BUILDINGS, should not be a necessity in a properly functioning state. IT IS a necessity in South Africa because crime is out of control and the police are ineffective at controlling it.
 
A Darter said:
The country changed. Crime changed. To a thief, a computer is a computer. Doesn't matter who it belongs to. The same way in which most people in the suburbs didn't have electric fences way back then.
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How did crime get so bad? Because effective policing went downhill. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together here.
 
Garyvdh said:
So that then begs the question.... how did the SAPS used to do it? Cos I can guarantee you that there were no private security firms guarding the police stations when I was a laaitie (not that I, ahem, used to spend much time at the police station). If the SAPS used to manage without them at one point in time, what then changed that it suddenly became a necessity?
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At my two local police stations I haven't private security guys around either. They use a company like ADT for the alarm, but those guys don't guard the stations.

Obviously worsening crime (which isn't all the fault of the SAPS) made this scenario necessary, but now that it's here there's nothing unreasonable about the police using private security firms instead of their officers to protect buildings.
 
A Darter said:
But miraculously whenever the Task Force shoots dead 6/7 guys in an attempted cash heist, all of the skilled white guys who left years ago seem to be involved. :erm:
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Ignorance? Those are the newer guys and not every single one left. The skilled operators who came from an army background are gone as well as their students. Have you seen who is in TF now? Have you seen the new selection process?
They have made it a whole lot easier now and also have allowed females in which I have no issue with but I dont think they can handle the same as men in that environment.
 
Thank heavens for private security. Who shows up within minutes when the alarm is sounded? Certainly not our "stomach-in-chest-out" tax feeders. Private sector rocking again. Of course, if the government didn't emasculate its populace and allowed for conceal-carry of firearms we wouldn't have much crime at all.
 
Garyvdh said:
So please enlighten us... who's fault is it then?
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It's obviously lot of factors, rising poverty and expectations that aren't met for the poor. A culture of violence and gangsterism in many communities, the SAPS becoming less "harsh" etc etc.

SAPS can't create crime, it's a social problem that they should be combating and they can't keep up.
 
marine1 said:
You have to be kidding??
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About what.. police using private security companies to protect their property? In that case no, they make a very good argument for it in the article. How about just saying why you think police should be using their own officers to do guarding?

Your last argument was that back in the good old days "Training recruits were made to guard, simple as that. You had to learn and go through the ranks." I don't see how on earth guarding a building is learning or going through the ranks, these days they pay security firms (less than you pay police officers) to do this and student constables go out on patrol and work in the charge office, which is actual training.

How are security guards less desirable? Note the numerous positives over using police in the article too.
 
marine1 said:
Ignorance? Those are the newer guys and not every single one left. The skilled operators who came from an army background are gone as well as their students. Have you seen who is in TF now? Have you seen the new selection process?
They have made it a whole lot easier now and also have allowed females in which I have no issue with but I dont think they can handle the same as men in that environment.
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Do they suck now? :(
 
Doesn't need rocket scientist mentality - anc connections that didn't make the Gov gravy train, had to find a way to ghet their snouts in, so bingo > outsourced SAPS!
 
Korn1 said:
Do they suck now? :(
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Look its not what it was, those video floating around are very old. ;)


Amy_R said:
Doesn't need rocket scientist mentality - anc connections that didn't make the Gov gravy train, had to find a way to ghet their snouts in, so bingo > outsourced SAPS!
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Would seem so. Why do the recruits not guard the stations anymore?
 
marine1 said:
Ignorance? Those are the newer guys and not every single one left. The skilled operators who came from an army background are gone as well as their students. Have you seen who is in TF now? Have you seen the new selection process?
They have made it a whole lot easier now and also have allowed females in which I have no issue with but I dont think they can handle the same as men in that environment.
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Selection is still as hard as ever. Who exactly is in the TF now? Overweight women who cant fit into their uniforms? They have allowed women to apply, that doesn't mean they make it. The majority of them dropped out during training. I think only 4 or 5 made it if I'm not mistaken, this was back in 2004. I haven't heard of any women joining since. Point is they have to go through what all the guys go through.
 
A Darter said:
Selection is still as hard as ever. Who exactly is in the TF now? Overweight women who cant fit into their uniforms? They have allowed women to apply, that doesn't mean they make it. The majority of them dropped out during training. I think only 4 or 5 made it if I'm not mistaken, this was back in 2004. I haven't heard of any women joining since. Point is they have to go through what all the guys go through.
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Would you like to put money on it? Maybe speak to ex TF members and see what their take is, thats where I get my info. and they were all in those videos.
 
Joined the reservists force, 20 years ago & I can tell you that the training was military standards & yes, we also had about a 25% dropout!
 
Korn1 said:
Do they suck now? :(
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The STF is still one of the best trained police units anywhere on earth. Dont listen to people who want to copy-paste their negativity on everything. When you hear of 5 robbers being shot dead in a failed cash heist, who do you think is responsible?

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marine1 said:
Would you like to put money on it? Maybe speak to ex TF members and see what their take is, thats where I get my info. and they were all in those videos.
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You can speak to Ex anyone....its human nature to say "my life was tougher than yours" or "we went through so much more than you" etc etc. Our grandfathers did it to our fathers, our fathers did it to us, and we'll pass it on.
 
A Darter said:
The STF is still one of the best trained police units anywhere on earth. Dont listen to people who want to copy-paste their negativity on everything. When you hear of 5 robbers being shot dead in a failed cash heist, who do you think is responsible?
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Firstly, do you know how that happened? STF had information and were waiting for the suspects, its called an ambush. Any group of men with machine guns, a helo, comms, etc can do that.
You are missing the point, I am not saying they are not good, am not saying I don't have the utmost respect for them, they are very good.
Point is they are not the same unit they were, since Director (Brigadier) Mike Fryer left.

Now you have a commander who IIRC went from Sgt straight to Colonel ;) and now is a Brigadier :D
 
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A Darter said:
You can speak to Ex anyone....its human nature to say "my life was tougher than yours" or "we went through so much more than you" etc etc. Our grandfathers did it to our fathers, our fathers did it to us, and we'll pass it on.
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Ok well you seem to know everything about it so I will leave it there ;)
 
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