Ballon d'or Winner

smokey said:
The simple fact of the matter is that they didn't have many good games when Xavi was out. Fact. When Messi isn't there, there's always Bojan, Pedro, Villa to score goals. If Xavi isn't there, there's no one to dictate the pace of the game. Simple really.
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They really struggled at times last season when Xavi was on the pitch but Messi wasn't. The difference was Xavi pulls the strings for the others, Messi makes things happen out of thin air.
 
Randhir said:
They really struggled at times last season when Xavi was on the pitch but Messi wasn't. The difference was Xavi pulls the strings for the others, Messi makes things happen out of thin air.
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They also struggled when Xavi wasn't on the pitch and Messi was. Tomatoe, tomato. I think it's best to look at how MEssi performs in a team without Xavi and how the team Xavi plays in performs without Messi (ie: Spain/Argentina).
 
smokey said:
. I think it's best to look at how MEssi performs in a team without Xavi and how the team Xavi plays in performs without Messi (ie: Spain/Argentina).
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Aaaaaaand the (world cup) winner is..........
 
dbecks said:
Aaaaaaand the (world cup) winner is..........
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Thats different though The Barcalona team is basically the spanish team minus torress, cassilas and Ramos so Xavi knows everoyne there and how they play and all sorts.
Messi doesn't play with his argentine team mates every week, and he still plays brilliantly for argentina.
 
Helghast said:
Thats different though The Barcalona team is basically the spanish team minus torress, cassilas and Ramos so Xavi knows everoyne there and how they play and all sorts.
Messi doesn't play with his argentine team mates every week, and he still plays brilliantly for argentina.
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...

Seriously?

...

Whack argument dude.
 
Regardless dude Messi shows his skill every week, and you can clearly see he has more skill than Xavi.
 
Helghast said:
Regardless dude Messi shows his skill every week, and you can clearly see he has more skill than Xavi.
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Depends on how you define skill. Can Xavi dribble like Messi? Nope! Can Messi control a game like Xavi can? Nope! Both are skills and both show those skills week in week out. The only thing you can say is that Messi is flashier than Xavi.
 
Helghast said:
Thats different though The Barcalona team is basically the spanish team minus torress, cassilas and Ramos so Xavi knows everoyne there and how they play and all sorts.
Messi doesn't play with his argentine team mates every week, and he still plays brilliantly for argentina.
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When exactaly does messi play brilliant for argentine?? He has been below par in pretty much each and every major tournament he has played for them...
 
smokey said:
Depends on how you define skill. Can Xavi dribble like Messi? Nope! Can Messi control a game like Xavi can? Nope! Both are skills and both show those skills week in week out. The only thing you can say is that Messi is flashier than Xavi.
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Yeah Xavi prob can control a game but Messi scores, messi tricks players with all sorts of skills, he basically does everything that he needs to do on a very high level.
stefan9 said:
When exactaly does messi play brilliant for argentine?? He has been below par in pretty much each and every major tournament he has played for them...
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He might not have scored in the WC but he was still brilliant and had great shots.
 
Helghast said:
Yeah Xavi prob can control a game but Messi scores, messi tricks players with all sorts of skills, he basically does everything that he needs to do on a very high level.


He might not have scored in the WC but he was still brilliant and had great shots.
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He was not anywhere close to his normal standard at the wc....
 
Helghast said:
He was still better than most.
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Doesn't mean much. Much more is expected of world class players like messi. He failed at the world cup, don't think that can be disputed if you watch him week in and week out...
 
We've had this argument before, but in order to be remembered as a true great, you need to perform on the international stage providing your country is WC material. Travesty that Giggs never had the oppurtunity to showcase his talent at a WC. Xavi has proven his WC credentials and Messi not. Argentina is a WC power house so no excuses as to why Messi can't perform. He is still a kid though and has many WCs ahead of him.
 
Helghast said:
Yeah Xavi prob can control a game but Messi scores, messi tricks players with all sorts of skills, he basically does everything that he needs to do on a very high level.
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You like bling, don't you? Messi is the football version of phat rims and gold chains.
 
Yeah Xavi might have been better than him at the WC but Messi still was brilliant and he was even more Brilliant in club football so that outweighed Xavi's brilliance.
Smokey they way you talking its as if you didn't think Ronaldo deserved a player of the year or Ronaldhinho. Its like you dont think goal scoring and doing skills count.
 
Helghast said:
Yeah Xavi might have been better than him at the WC but Messi still was brilliant and he was even more Brilliant in club football so that outweighed Xavi's brilliance.
Smokey they way you talking its as if you didn't think Ronaldo deserved a player of the year or Ronaldhinho. Its like you dont think goal scoring and doing skills count.
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I do think they count. However, with Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, they both single-handedly pulled their respective teams to the top. I mean it was Ronaldinho ALONE basically against Chelsea when he pulled them through way back.

This Barca team is... well... a team. That type of team needs Xavi more than it needs Messi. Simple.

One last thing, skills are all fine and dandy, but it's the goalscoring exploits that are more important with those players. Seriously, I'd take Inzaghi (right now) over Ronaldinho (right now) any day of the week. Why? Inzaghi scores goals. Skills for skills is rubbish.
 
smokey said:
I do think they count. However, with Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, they both single-handedly pulled their respective teams to the top. I mean it was Ronaldinho ALONE basically against Chelsea when he pulled them through way back.

This Barca team is... well... a team. That type of team needs Xavi more than it needs Messi. Simple.

One last thing, skills are all fine and dandy, but it's the goalscoring exploits that are more important with those players. Seriously, I'd take Inzaghi (right now) over Ronaldinho (right now) any day of the week. Why? Inzaghi scores goals. Skills for skills is rubbish.
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But the thing is Messi has both skill and scoring ability.
Yeah Xavi is needed at Barca but that doesn't mean he deserves the ballon d'or.
 
Helghast said:
But the thing is Messi has both skill and scoring ability.
Yeah Xavi is needed at Barca but that doesn't mean he deserves the ballon d'or.
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(i stand corrected) but I think that Messi has supreme close control and thats what gets him pass players - not so much the trickery

Just saying
 
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