BEE

[JustAsk]

Everyone who got their education post-94 should not even qualify for BEE positions, only the people who lived through apartheid should be the beneficiaries. Might sound harsh but most people are just looking for freebies.

Well,sorry but it's not as simple as that.

If i was born in '94,should i not qualify even tho my parents suffered all their lives,and as a result of that i was born in poverty,grew up in poverty and suddenly now 2008 everything is ok?
Now if that was a white guy born in '94 don't you think he benefited from the laws that was so good to his parents.Even tho his parents did not support apartheid they sure as hell enjoy the benefits.

FOR EVIL TO WIN IN THIS WORLD IS FOR ENOUGH GOOD PEOPLE TO DO NOTHING

Its as if there was a MINORITY of white people that supported the old system,yet the majority never speak out,not even refuse to enjoy the benefits.AA roughly means between the black and white guy you have to choose the black guy.In apartheid there was not even a black candidate.Whites ran a race only against themselves(Mugabe style),and even then there was no loser,they just create a second job.

Pre '94 all eskom,telkom,spoorweg technicans were white,yet all the technical work was done by their black/brown "boytjies",while they were drinking tea somewhere but get the big paycheck.Go check where they are now,now most of them had to re-apply for their jobs.Why do you think many of those retrenched whites can't get jobs now,cuz they were protected by a system.

I dare you to go to any place where you'll find broke whites(arm blankes).Look at them and you'll recognize the very same social problems you'll see in black/brown communities.That my friend is the product of poverty.

 

[PeterCH]

This was due to hard work, entrepreneurs, they have their own businesses, even before BEE existed.

They were restricted from having the investments they wanted in apartheid years.

Dude, my family was forced to sell off tons of prime land by Communists in the 50's. My parents ran a quasi legal business (you couldn't run businesses in Commie countries) and they couldn't invest. Had they been able to invest at that time (1980's) we'd be literally worth in hundreds of millions of Euros. I also have family who were murdered by Nazis and Soviet collaborators.

Your Apartheid system still allowed you to work legally (or your family),
where I came from, you had the same or even worse restrictions. There was no foreign media
to report on abuses or murders.

I'm not condoning apartheid but the cr*p people went through in Eastern Europe under Soviet Puppet governments was at least as bad,
with Soviet crackdowns which included machine gunning people from tanks or worse. Sadly there's no equivalent of BEE for those people.

People need to get over themselves and generate their own wealth
with their own two hands, not ask for handouts constantly (BEE,AA).

 

[feo]

People need to get over themselves and generate their own wealth
with their own two hands, not ask for handouts constantly (BEE,AA).

These 2 lines alone could replace this entire thread.

 

[kelnoreem]

Dude, my family was forced to sell off tons of prime land by Communists in the 50's. My parents ran a quasi legal business (you couldn't run businesses in Commie countries) and they couldn't invest. Had they been able to invest at that time (1980's) we'd be literally worth in hundreds of millions of Euros. I also have family who were murdered by Nazis and Soviet collaborators.

Your Apartheid system still allowed you to work legally (or your family),
where I came from, you had the same or even worse restrictions. There was no foreign media
to report on abuses or murders.

I'm not condoning apartheid but the cr*p people went through in Eastern Europe under Soviet Puppet governments was at least as bad,
with Soviet crackdowns which included machine gunning people from tanks or worse. Sadly there's no equivalent of BEE for those people.

People need to get over themselves and generate their own wealth
with their own two hands, not ask for handouts constantly (BEE,AA).

So just because those people who suffered these harendous acts are unable to attempt to correct their situation ,we inthis country shouldn't...come on.
you use the best means available to achieve tour result ,which is to achieve equality

 

[PeterCH]

So just because those people who suffered these harendous acts are unable to attempt to correct their situation ,we inthis country shouldn't...come on.
you use the best means available to achieve tour result ,which is to achieve equality

Many South Africans believe they were in a UNIQUE situation and so the WORLD and whoever else (namely whoever has some money) owes them
everything.

Well other people who went through hell (and not just in EE too, but the world over)
also didn't get compensated and also lost opportunities. Just because the oppressors were the same skin colour doesn't make a difference.

People from all over have sob stories. I just gave some of mine. However we get over it and rebuild ourselves. Some in SA, I'm afraid are not capable of that.

BEE to me is racial discrimination. Plain and simple. As for the attitudes some people have, the world is not stupid, you're just embarrasing yourselves.

 

[dlk001]

another thing, is that whites have given most blacks their own land in apartheid, now they claim jobs in the white land(just using the term), how is that?

Whites gave Blacks their own land? Sounds like it was a very good deed!

 

[kelnoreem]

If embarassememt means attempting to correct inequalities, maybe more countries should embarras themselves. for all the success stories in those countries Im sure there is thousands not so fortunate, and if there is a vechile for them to access why shouldn't they.

 

[EtienneK]

If embarassememt means attempting to correct inequalities, maybe more countries should embarras themselves. for all the success stories in those countries Im sure there is thousands not so fortunate, and if there is a vechile for them to access why shouldn't they.

Agreed. We should use such a vehicle. But find me one that works.

 

[kelnoreem]

I dont know of one that will satisfy everybody ,but should we abandon the process because it is not perfect.

 

[JustAsk]

@JustASK, well the parents of black children would have benefited post-apartheid though BEE and thus black children would have also benefited.

True,but out of the 50mil black people how many exactly...not even 1%

you can't get paid for what happened to your parents. only the part that affected you PERSONALLY, and that is already being done.

What happen to my parents?No,what happen to my nation,to whole generations.Next time a white girl gets raped,you think giving her 5mil rands solve everything now?

another thing, is that whites have given most blacks their own land in apartheid, now they claim jobs in the white land(just using the term), how is that?

You mean like the uncle that pays your way thru college,but molesting you?

I guess then the land reform issue is about blacks wanting the land that belonged to whites all along.

 

[EtienneK]

I dont know of one that will satisfy everybody ,but should we abandon the process because it is not perfect.

We should abandon it, because it's not working *at all*.

 

[JustAsk]

But it is not the fault of whites that this happens, and the BEE deals have reached hundreds of billions of rands already, who pays?

Then please enlighten me,who was the oppressor.

and as for bringing in the 'white girl' yes many more white girls were rapped than whites ever raped blacks in this nation, should whites not be paid back for that?

Well i don't know how you got to white vs black rape thing.Let me rephrase that for you.
If a white girl gets raped(i didn't mention by who) will a payout solve all her problems.Will a payout takes away the pain,trauma,virginity,ect?No it won't.

Just like a simple payout will not solve a black guy's rape,poverty,pain,trauma,ect caused by apartheid.Compensation is just a starting point.

Well not only whites other races besides blacks were also brought here and have deals with white people, that is another debate, but as to whites having the land owned in the first place, yes, whites have most of the land in this country, remember whites arrived here and built, 200 years before blacks came here(besides for kwazulu and Lesotho was accepted as black land. bfutoswana if that is how you spell it, was also separated from white land.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Southafricaracialdemographics1979.png

Whites have no claim on any part of any land anywhere in SA,PERIOD.

 

[EtienneK]

Whites have no claim on any part of any land anywhere in SA,PERIOD.

And this is why I think only people with an IQ of higher than 100 and/or people that pass a simple History and Politics exam must be allowed to vote...

 

[Vrotappel]

if you matriculated in 1995 from a education system that clearly was not corrected in 1 year ,how can you disregard them? they went throuh the same inadequate system from the previous year. these things take time

Funny that in year 14 the education system is still not fixed. In fact the overall standard of education has dropped. In stead of uplifting we are dragging everyone down. That is the fruit of AA. BEE has got a much more sinister price that we will all have to pay (and are paying already).

We need to realise that SA is not an island. Foreign countries are not going to do business with us because we were (allegedly) disadvantaged by apartheid. They are going to do business with whoever offers the best product at the best price. Currently SA with its overpriced labor and strenuous BEE and AA legislation is not competitive. Look at Zim and see what happens in our future if this continues.

 

[Vrotappel]

And this is why I think only people with an IQ of higher than 100 and/or people that pass a simple History and Politics exam must be allowed to vote...

Agreed.

 

[JustAsk]

how were blacks pre-apartheid compared to whites, not that rich either. so you can't blame whites for all indiffrences, what should be done, is that justice should be brought to the very persons who offended, and for the very persons who were offended. not on a wide scale 'are you black'/'are you white' method

Well if it was so simple i would say go for but sadly it isn't.A system was in place that benefited 1 race as a whole.So yes black/white method is the only way.Marine1 is pissed off because off his father's problems with companies following certain policies,suddenly the entire black race will suffer if he and all his "productive tjommies" will leave this country.

If you keep looking to all black people as incompetent,every black worker is there because of aa,then don't cry foul if the world media sees you and your race as the bastion of racism,because you let it happen...

If white people can have all this debate against black racism,bee,aa..if they can have that dying obsession to tell the world in every possible way how bad it actually is here,imagine where could SA be if that very same enthusiasm was used and expressed against the apartheid system.

And you know what? Despite all this,despite all the injustice of the past,how come the most people that smile,that is positive is that very same black poor guy.There is a certain type of white people than thrive on negativity,the kind that think he has the God given right to save the country.Those bastards should've been swallowed by birth.

Every person should have a standard mutual respect for the other guy,regardless of colour.Just like many said in this thread that people should not ask for freebies,handouts,blaming apartheid for everything...white people should also stop blaming bee/aa everytime they can't get a job.It has become a convenient excuse if the black guy really is better qualified than you.

Respect does not have to be earned,you just should respect the next guy black or not.

 

[ironrod]

I am sitting in a position whereby, I will not be promoted willingly by my white boss to a level where all the "white boys" are, even with my eight years of experience.

I have the skills to do the job, but have got to prove myself, over and over again, and still be told "not competent enough" to deserve that. I admittedly, am more skilled that some of my peers in the higher grades, but just cannot be recognized as such.

The only saving grace for the African man in my situation, is enforcing EE and the Skills Development Act. Force the white superiors to develop the skills required to do the job, and appoint Africans in the those position.

We are busy working on the WSP and EE at the same time, to address the inequalities and to ensure that the suitable people are appointed in the posts.

 

[eitai2001]

Why don't you change jobs? I would if I fely I was being treated unfairly ... perhaps if you tell them you are going, they will offer you a raise / better position?

 

[semiautomatix]

forgive me for adding the 300 years my family was oppressed as slaves in the service of the ancestors of the creators of a system that only got a name 46 years ago

You do realise that just ober 46 years ago many of our ancestors and cousins had their entire country leveled by bombs and their cities virtually destroyed? Do they still blame the Germans? No. In fact, Germany is one of the UK's biggest trading partners.

Thats why Europe is so successful! Forget the past, forgive the transgressions and work TOGETHER to build a successful continent (or country). Don't sideline anyone and ensure you have one of the most successful continents (countries) in the world!

South Africa is too short sighted to realise if we built this nation as one, without pushing "sins of the father" and looking for revenge we could be the most successful place in the world! Forget BEE, forget AA - legislation could never replace the need for everyone to co-operate for a better and bigger nation!

 

[ironrod]

Why don't you change jobs? I would if I fely I was being treated unfairly ... perhaps if you tell them you are going, they will offer you a raise / better position?

Why give in to them? Why must I leave because of them? They can leave when EE is enforced and they cannot be promoted till the inequalities have been addressed.

I am not going anywhere. How many more African are in the same situation? Are we going to up and leave when the going is tough? Then we are defeated even before the battle has started.

I have tolerated this nonsense long enough, am not going anywhere. They can all go to OZ,NZ and all over the world.