Being a responsible neighbour

[reneg8or]

A situation has presented itself with a question and I would like to invite others to comment. Act as if you are a cop, or a lawyer, a prosecutor or a judge. The rules of this court room is orderliness and decency, so please be germane and not in contempt (of the feelings of others readers.) :erm:

Be the jury.

Situation

A fraternity has guidelines for the conduct of its members. It prides itself in promoting the very best in terms of good citizenship. Its rules say that, if a member, not someone from the outside, acts in ways detrimental to the orderliness of the fraternity and damages other civilians, even in public, one should not be associated with him. It states clearly that said offender be evicted from the organisation.

Now, the problem.

* some members are promiscuous
* almost all gossip
* some are fraudsters
* some abuse little children, steal from the employees whilst other steal from employers

Let us now say that a whistle blower gets wind of child molestation and goes to the leaders of the fraternity. They immediately cover it up and also oust the whistle blower. My questions are:

1. If it is a criminal deed that was reported and the leadership covers it up, are they accessories to the crime?
2. Is it wrong for a member to want to have the constitution honoured by expecting the rules to be enforced?
3. What happens to the victims of the misconduct or crimes?
4. Should members socialize with the offender?
5. How will the organization achieve its goals if it is decaying from within?

A further point: the rules also explicitly forbid members to judge non-members, yet those covering up and hiding the transgressor within goes to war against organisations with similar but different constitutions. Is this fair and will this promote a healthy community instead of a sick society?

Where does your responsibility lie, or mine?

Please think this over and tell me what you think. A hint: read online, just Google "1 Corintians 5:9-13"

 

[scudsucker]

A hint: just Google "John 11:35"

 

[Fudzy]

It's a trap!

 

[reneg8or]

A hint: just Google "John 11:35"

PPhhheeeww! Thanks for this, I followed your hint and now I am dizzy and have palpitations. No, I am not angry with you and I am very glad for your response, but I got caught up so much in what is right and what is wrong that I totally forgot about the aspect of Love being broken-hearted.

Someone from another country said we must forgive the sinner. OK, I am prepared to do that, but should we now let criminals loose among our young? Close the cop shops and the courts? If we prosecute, are we doing it out of vengeance or are we just protecting the innocent?

 

[w1z4rd]

There is a lot missing here so will try my best.

1) If they knowingly cover up a crime then yes, they are accessories in my eyes.
2) No. I belong to a frat and if you do not abide by the constitution things go bad. On the same note a constitution should be a living document and everything needs to be considered.
3) Well they should be reporting the crime to the police
4) Not if they know he is responsible for a serious offense. Im not talking about cheating wives, gossipers, coke heads. Im talking about people who hurt other people intentionally.
5) It will suffer big time.

"Where does your responsibility lie, or mine?"

Report the crime, especially if its child abuse.

Free advice: Do not use the Bible to direct your morality unless you wish to be arrested. Use common sense, South Africa law and the constitution of your fraternity.

 

[reneg8or]

It's a trap!

No, it is no trap. It is a simple, straightforward question. I need to get the right perspective as a friend abroad says that we should just forgive others and let them go free. Countries have laws to protect the innocent but, if we generally allow bad things to happen and not manage the situation, are we not adding to the problem?

The late Dr Murray Janson once wrote this: "if you see a man molesting a little girl in the park, you don't pray for her, you beat him up!" Now, Dr Janson was a very level-headed,phlegmatic person. So he said it is right to protect the girl, what saith you?

 

[reneg8or]

There is a lot missing here so will try my best.

1) If they knowingly cover up a crime then yes, they are accessories in my eyes.
2) No. I belong to a frat and if you do not abide by the constitution things go bad. On the same note a constitution should be a living document and everything needs to be considered.
3) Well they should be reporting the crime to the police
4) Not if they know he is responsible for a serious offense. Im not talking about cheating wives, gossipers, coke heads. Im talking about people who hurt other people intentionally.
5) It will suffer big time.

"Where does your responsibility lie, or mine?"

Report the crime, especially if its child abuse.

Free advice: Do not use the Bible to direct your morality unless you wish to be arrested. Use common sense, South Africa law and the constitution of your fraternity.

Hi Ghoti, thanks for the share. Your views are balanced, in my layman's opinion. Your "Karmic Sangoma" had me laugh out loud, it really is funny. It shows there is a sense of humour and a healthy wit somewhere inside The Ghoti.

Although the membership guidelines do come from the Bible, I think that being fair and just is not (just) a Biblical thing but pure common sense. Isn't it supposed to be part of who we are as humans?

 

[Datura]

Sounds like Church.

 

[reneg8or]

Sounds like Church.

Yes and no. Society, its clubs and cliques, its social structures go beyond any religious body. I am merely asking your opinion about what is right.

There is a gym instructor who also is a pick-pocket AND he tries to liaise with 12-year old girls.......one of which is your daughter. And your phone, wallet and wedding ring is gone from your locker....... Do you shrug, smile and just walk tall?

 

[^^vampire^^]

The bible has absolutely bugger all to do with this. If someone is molesting children you lock them away and throw away the key.
Judging criminals based on a book people wrote thousands of years ago is just ridiculous; times and situations change - your book doesn't keep up.

Why would anyone want to be part of these so called organisations? They may have rules, regulations and charters but as soon as someone is presented with an opportunity to enrich themselves they will take it and if they need to protect others in the process then that will be done too. You're not in on the misdeeds of others and therefore you were booted out.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

Sounds like Church.

Hallelujah brother Dat!

 

[Fudzy]

Yes and no. Society, its clubs and cliques, its social structures go beyond any religious body. I am merely asking your opinion about what is right.

There is a gym instructor who also is a pick-pocket AND he tries to liaise with 12-year old girls.......one of which is your daughter. And your phone, wallet and wedding ring is gone from your locker....... Do you shrug, smile and just walk tall?

I would go to the cops.

 

[reneg8or]

The bible has absolutely bugger all to do with this. If someone is molesting children you lock them away and throw away the key.
Judging criminals based on a book people wrote thousands of years ago is just ridiculous; times and situations change - your book doesn't keep up.

Why would anyone want to be part of these so called organisations? They may have rules, regulations and charters but as soon as someone is presented with an opportunity to enrich themselves they will take it and if they need to protect others in the process then that will be done too. You're not in on the misdeeds of others and therefore you were booted out.

You may find it interesting that I have left the clubbing scene in the spring of 2006 and have never been happier since. My wife and I share our love with many people every day, people from different cultures and beliefs, from other races and other nations. In each person, we have found the potential to be a very good friend. No strings attached.

 

[Grant]

your description sounds like that of our government

 

[Fudzy]

You may find it interesting that I have left the clubbing scene in the spring of 2006 and have never been happier since. My wife and I share our love with many people every day, people from different cultures and beliefs, from other races and other nations. In each person, we have found the potential to be a very good friend. No strings attached.

Where did he mention clubbing?

 

[porchrat]

If you believe that people are being harmed then IMO it is your civic duty to go to the police and report it at the very least.

Those who cover up the abuse deserve to face penalties as well. If you allow abuse to continue when you have the power to put a stop to it then you are guilty by your inaction.

 

[reneg8or]

your description sounds like that of our government

Don't make the mistake of adding names as the shoe fits many. What is being discussed here, is how we should handle such situations. The closer to home it is, the more we will be affected by such things. I am asking what our responsibilities are. I am doing so because of a looooooooooong letter from someone in another country who belives in just setting all offenders free. That covering up seemingly is a way of forgiveness.

 

[porchrat]

You may find it interesting that I have left the clubbing scene in the spring of 2006 and have never been happier since. My wife and I share our love with many people every day, people from different cultures and beliefs, from other races and other nations. In each person, we have found the potential to be a very good friend. No strings attached.

Well your participation in the swinger scene aside you should report the abuse.

 

[reneg8or]

Where did he mention clubbing?

Just a witty way of saying that I have stopped membership at all fraternities and went solo. Pardon my figurative speech.

 

[reneg8or]

Well your participation in the swinger scene aside you should report the abuse.

Swinger scene No, dearest Porchrat, spreading love is something different. It has everything to do with intimacy, which is something only happening in the heart. Further south you will find biological entertainment but that is no love. (Under certain marital circumstances it could be an added expression of love, but between faithful partners.)