Being caught lying about university degree

[tridev]

I work at a company and one of the senior devs got caught out lying about his university degree where a client he was subcontracted to has a requirement of background check. He resigned of course after he was caught. Must have been awkward. Ironically he would never have been caught as there is only one client that validates qualifications. All the others clients my company has don't. So it was bad luck on his part it happened but it happened after he was employed a few months .

I know this is quite common in South Africa's government and SOEs but IT companies don't very often verify qualifications and just trust people. I find the knowledge you get in a degree becomes outdated fast and that it really doesn't matter if you apply for software dev roles and he should have rather excluded his degree and applied just with his experience.

 

[PhireSide]

Experience aside, the issue always comes down to the fact that he lied in the first place.

Employers value honest employees that add value to their brand or enterprise. Employers don't value dishonest employees that add value to their brand or enterprise.

 

[scudsucker]

I'm currently in the process of a background check. I don't have a degree and my highest qualification is GCSE 'A' Level back in '94.

I wish them good luck finding that piece of paper confirming my scanned one, which is stored somewhere in the Dept of Education in Zim.

 

[cguy]

I find the knowledge you get in a degree becomes outdated fast and that it really doesn't matter if you apply for software dev roles and he should have rather excluded his degree and applied just with his experience.

How does it become outdated? The vast majority of what I covered in my degree is still relevant today (25-30 years later).

More likely, many people move into roles that don’t need or require this knowledge. In such a case, I agree that experience may have been enough (assuming they had the experience), and should have been the route taken. If the lack of degree meant they didn’t get their current job, they would just have got another.

 

[tridev]

I'm currently in the process of a background check. I don't have a degree and my highest qualification is GCSE 'A' Level back in '94.

I wish them good luck finding that piece of paper confirming my scanned one, which is stored somewhere in the Dept of Education in Zim.

Ironic you say this. This guy's qualification is also from another African country and in SA on a work visa but they managed to catch him out. Probably thought he would get away with it for that reason. I imagine will just move onto another SA company and keep his degree on his CV. No one will be the wiser.

 

[ScottulusMaximus]

I'm currently in the process of a background check. I don't have a degree and my highest qualification is GCSE 'A' Level back in '94.

I wish them good luck finding that piece of paper confirming my scanned one, which is stored somewhere in the Dept of Education in Zim.

GCSE is Cambridge so that's easy to get, Zimsec certificates also not that difficult to get hold of.

 

[Sinbad]

I work at a company and one of the senior devs got caught out lying about his university degree where a client he was subcontracted to has a requirement of background check. He resigned of course after he was caught. Must have been awkward. Ironically he would never have been caught as there is only one client that validates qualifications. All the others clients my company has don't. So it was bad luck on his part it happened but it happened after he was employed a few months .

I know this is quite common in South Africa's government and SOEs but IT companies don't very often verify qualifications and just trust people. I find the knowledge you get in a degree becomes outdated fast and that it really doesn't matter if you apply for software dev roles and he should have rather excluded his degree and applied just with his experience.

It's not bad luck on his part, it's the consequences of his choices.

It's also not about the content of the degree, but about his lack of integrity. He cannot be trusted.

 

[tridev]

It's not bad luck on his part, it's the consequences of his choices.

You are not a gambling man I see.

Let say 1% of IT companies in SA do education verification for senior dev roles. If you join a company you know does not do education checks then the chance you get subcontracted to another company that does do education verification is even less than 1% as subcontracted clients would assume it is verified. That gives you a very low chance to get caught out when joining this company. Now let say you got a scarce skill visa from SA government 10 years ago and have worked for 5 south African IT companies as a dev and can now easily get a new job because of that experience. You got away with fooling the SA government without being caught and you have benefited out of it financially and the risk of being caught out has reduced with time. This means there is no consequence anymore if that 1% chance happens and you lose that job as you can easily get a new job with your experience due to companies not sharing education audits nor sharing it with the SA government.

Now compare this with for example with you working for a company as a junior dev but that is your 1st job and you get sexually harassed by someone in management which emotionally drains you and you resign when management refuse to do anything about it because the perpetrator is one of them. You resign but your CV looks bad because now you have a gap in your CV and the company gives you bad reference saying they won't hire you again. You suffer the consequences of someone else's choice. You took a gamble by quitting and there was perhaps a 40% percent chance of being able to bounce back right away and get another job with the same salary.

Two cases. One case you committed fraud against the government and the company you worked for but ironically this has no consequence. Second case you are the victim but you and not the perpetrator have to carry the burden of the consequence of someone else's action.

It's also not about the content of the degree, but about his lack of integrity. He cannot be trusted.

What about people who lie about their job titles or experience? Are white lies acceptable or can people who tell white lies also not be trusted?

 

[Geoff.D]

There are no excuses, lies are lies, period.

 

[cguy]

What about people who lie about their job titles or experience? Are white lies acceptable or can people who tell white lies also not be trusted?

Those aren’t white lies. They’re just harder to verify. If they are verified, the same consequence should result.

 

[Kosmik]

Just don't lie, if a senior dev is good, they are far beyond what they are taught at uni or would have been.

 

[tridev]

Those aren’t white lies. They’re just harder to verify. If they are verified, the same consequence should result.

Do you honestly think an executive at a company who changes there 1 year duration old job they worked for 1 yea ago from developer to development management and is caught out would get fired? Or someone who says they have 1 year experience in x tech when they only have 6 months should suffer the same consequence?

That is what interviews are for. To test your technical ability. Same with certs really.

 

[Sinbad]

You are not a gambling man I see.

Let say 1% of IT companies in SA do education verification for senior dev roles. If you join a company you know does not do education checks then the chance you get subcontracted to another company that does do education verification is even less than 1% as subcontracted clients would assume it is verified. That gives you a very low chance to get caught out when joining this company. Now let say you got a scarce skill visa from SA government 10 years ago and have worked for 5 south African IT companies as a dev and can now easily get a new job because of that experience. You got away with fooling the SA government without being caught and you have benefited out of it financially and the risk of being caught out has reduced with time. This means there is no consequence anymore if that 1% chance happens and you lose that job as you can easily get a new job with your experience due to companies not sharing education audits nor sharing it with the SA government.

Now compare this with for example with you working for a company as a junior dev but that is your 1st job and you get sexually harassed by someone in management which emotionally drains you and you resign when management refuse to do anything about it because the perpetrator is one of them. You resign but your CV looks bad because now you have a gap in your CV and the company gives you bad reference saying they won't hire you again. You suffer the consequences of someone else's choice. You took a gamble by quitting and there was perhaps a 40% percent chance of being able to bounce back right away and get another job with the same salary.

Two cases. One case you committed fraud against the government and the company you worked for but ironically this has no consequence. Second case you are the victim but you and not the perpetrator have to carry the burden of the consequence of someone else's action.


What about people who lie about their job titles or experience? Are white lies acceptable or can people who tell white lies also not be trusted?

Lying about your experience is not a white lie. And the size of the odds of getting caught don't change the fact that if you lie about this kind of thing, you lack integrity.

 

[tridev]

Lying about your experience is not a white lie. And the size of the odds of getting caught don't change the fact that if you lie about this kind of thing, you lack integrity.

You can have 10 years experience but in fact it is 1 year experience ten times over. That is why devs have to do tech tests and be interviewed on their tech ability in multiple rounds of interviews.

 

[Messugga]

Just don't lie, if a senior dev is good, they are fat beyond what they are taught at uni or would have been.

lol. Some dev roles don't require a bit of self-taught nodejs.

 

[cguy]

Do you honestly think an executive at a company who changes there 1 year duration old job they worked for 1 yea ago from developer to development management and is caught out would get fired?

Yes, absolutely.

Or someone who says they have 1 year experience in x tech when they only have 6 months should suffer the same consequence?

There is some gray area here, about whether or not the person in question was lying or just inaccurate. You cannot be inaccurate about how long you worked at a company, or title, or when her you’ve got a degree or not though. You can be (accidentally) inaccurate with how much of your time you spent on C++ vs Python though.

That is what interviews are for. To test your technical ability. Same with certs really.

That’s not what interviews are for. They add additional complementary information to the existing information.

 

[tridev]

This actually reminds me there was a big SA recruiter who posted on LinkedIn about a senior dev who was threatening suicide as he lost his job due to the pandemic. She said he was being sent to interviews but because he was stressed about his situation was doing badly and was not getting offers. She was inviting anyone to help him directly and she wouldn't charge commission. The post got so many likes and went viral and made the recruiter really look good for caring . I wanted to help and got the guys details. He had very little industry experience but wanted to earn much more per month that I earn. I also didn't want to ruin my reputation if I passed his details on so I verified his previous experience and the employer on his resume confirmed he never worked there, his contract he used as proof as salary he never started, nor did the company close down due to the pandemic as the recruiter claimed. His skills he had told me also didn't match what the recruiter posted. I then relayed this info back to the recruiter privately in case they made a mistake by mixing something up in their LinkedIn post or the information they sent me. The recruiter went into damage control and very quickly forgot about a guy that was apparently suicidal. Found this rather ironic. Was a bit pissed off with the recruiter for wasting my time.
Thought if he really was in need I might ask for his portfolio. He posted screenshots from his phone of the home pages of large financial institutions, companies an work experiences that was never on his CV either.


Edit. I looked it up and the recruiter did delete the post they made a year ago. I did save a copy and I just post here to give an idea what people do to get interviews. (personal info redacted)

 

[Kosmik]

lol. Some dev roles don't require a bit of self-taught nodejs.

If you think that's what I mean, my sympathy.

 

[Messugga]

If you think that's what I mean, my sympathy.

It's called hyperbole. I'm yet to meet any dev that has taugh themselves advanced calculus, geometry or similar skills.

 

[tridev]

That’s not what interviews are for. They add additional complementary information to the existing information.

I find rather the opposite. if you fail the tech test you don't get an offer, no matter who good your CV is. However if you ace the tech test employers overlook it if you don't have a great CV.

Then not to mention portfolios, contributing to opensource and github projects employers also look at.

Years experience I find in IT does not play as big a part in hiring as in other industries.

This is my subjective view based on my experience. I understand if you might disagree.