Being caught lying about university degree

[cguy]

It's called hyperbole. I'm yet to meet any dev that has taugh themselves advanced calculus, geometry or similar skills.

I’ve met one or two (in my 25 or so year career), but wow, the odds are against that happening.

 

[cguy]

I find rather the opposite. if you fail the tech test you don't get an offer, no matter who good your CV is. However if you ace the tech test employers overlook it if you don't have a great CV.

In my experience, you don’t get to the tech tests without a great CV.

Then not to mention portfolios, contributing to opensource and github projects employers also look at.

They’re part of it, sure, but this is very sector specific. I have zero of the above.

Years experience I find in IT does not play as big a part in hiring as in other industries.

Also, very sector specific. Raw time doesn’t matter as such, but if you’re hiring someone into a DE role, it’s unlikely they’re going to have less than 15 years of experience.

This is my subjective view based on my experience. I understand if you might disagree.

People have very different experiences. The questions one has to ask, are where has that experience taken them, and is their advice detrimental to those who could go further than them.

 

[Bryn]

I find rather the opposite. if you fail the tech test you don't get an offer, no matter who good your CV is. However if you ace the tech test employers overlook it if you don't have a great CV.

Then not to mention portfolios, contributing to opensource and github projects employers also look at.

Years experience I find in IT does not play as big a part in hiring as in other industries.

This is my subjective view based on my experience. I understand if you might disagree.

I'm not sure most companies have the luxury of operating this way. I just started an incredible remote job for a US company, and they didn't even ask for my CV until after they'd firmly indicated the job was mine. The initial interview and the subsequent take-home assignment for the technical round thinned the herd from hundreds of applicants to almost nothing (there were times I got the impression I was the only person left standing - the assignment was really tricky).

And when my CV was touched on when I was presented to the entire team by my boss, he highlighted how every aspect of the CV was personalised to their company and the job listing they put out. So that may assist more than a generic thing you send to everyone.

It would stress me out so much if my CV contained fabrications. I don't know how anyone can live like that. If you have skills, use them to get a job or start a business. If you don't have skills, develop skills.

 

[TheMightyQuin]

Do you honestly think an executive at a company who changes there 1 year duration old job they worked for 1 yea ago from developer to development management and is caught out would get fired? Or someone who says they have 1 year experience in x tech when they only have 6 months should suffer the same consequence?

That is what interviews are for. To test your technical ability. Same with certs really.

So...what did you lie about on your C.V. or during YOUR interview?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"............

 

[TheMightyQuin]

GCSE is Cambridge so that's easy to get, Zimsec certificates also not that difficult to get hold of.

Only if they're real though...................................

 

[supersunbird]

What about people who lie about their job titles or experience? Are white lies acceptable or can people who tell white lies also not be trusted?

Those are not white lies. White lies are if the HR person asks if those jeans make their bum look big and you say no to spare their feelings.

Maybe you can find an actual example of white lie that might be found on a CV?

 

[cguy]

I'm not sure most companies have the luxury of operating this way. I just started an incredible remote job for a US company, and they didn't even ask for my CV until after they'd firmly indicated the job was mine. The initial interview and the subsequent take-home assignment for the technical round thinned the herd from hundreds of applicants to almost nothing (there were times I got the impression I was the only person left standing - the assignment was really tricky).

And when my CV was touched on when I was presented to the entire team by my boss, he highlighted how every aspect of the CV was personalised to their company and the job listing they put out. So that may assist more than a generic thing you send to everyone.

It would stress me out so much if my CV contained fabrications. I don't know how anyone can live like that. If you have skills, use them to get a job or start a business. If you don't have skills, develop skills.

I don’t quite follow what you are saying. Do you not have a LinkedIn? Are you saying they interviewed you without knowing anything about you, then offered you a job and asked for your CV after?

 

[supersunbird]

This actually reminds me there was a big SA recruiter who posted on LinkedIn about a senior dev who was threatening suicide as he lost his job due to the pandemic. She said he was being sent to interviews but because he was stressed about his situation was doing badly and was not getting offers. She was inviting anyone to help him directly and she wouldn't charge commission. The post got so many likes and went viral and made the recruiter really look good for caring . I wanted to help and got the guys details. He had very little industry experience but wanted to earn much more per month that I earn. I also didn't want to ruin my reputation if I passed his details on so I verified his previous experience and the employer on his resume confirmed he never worked there, his contract he used as proof as salary he never started, nor did the company close down due to the pandemic as the recruiter claimed. I then relayed this info back to the recruiter privately in case they made a mistake by mixing something up in their linkedin post or the information they sent me. The recruiter went into damage control and very quickly forgot about a guy that was apparently suicidal. Found this rather ironic. Was bit pissed off with the recruiter for a bit for making me waste my time but left it there.

She got fooled by a scammer, happens, they always have sob stories.

 

[Bryn]

I don’t quite follow what you are saying? Do you not have a LinkedIn? Are you saying they interviewed you without knowing anything about you, then offered you a job and asked for your CV after?

Yeah, they knew as near as nothing about me going into the first round. I was running my own B2B agency and not very bothered with LinkedIn (although I had a page). The way I responded to the job listing was why I was given an interview.

 

[3WA]

I've come across a system at an American university where they don't provide transcripts to graduates. When they apply for jobs, the university sends their transcripts directly to the potential employer. The disadvantage is the applicant has to pay a fee for each transcript sent.

Given the level of integrity in South Africa, I think we need something similar.

 

[Kosmik]

It's called hyperbole. I'm yet to meet any dev that has taugh themselves advanced calculus, geometry or similar skills.

Yes and no. I can talk a bit from both sides of the coin, I've never used any advance calculus in my career but I'm also well aware that certain job functions require to program models etc. Probably most of the tertiary mathematics I've used is statistics and even that not much beyond the basic initial.

My point though is that I attended tertiary over two decades ago. While the fundamentals hold, technology has changed so much since then that it is purely principals and fundamentals that are relevant. Everything else, is learnt from that time with additional study whether it be courses , self taught or online. As to advanced mathematics, many folks drifted that way to teaching themselves more advanced structures, especially with the rise of data science and AI. Also if I recall, most comsci degrees are relatively light on mathematics these days ( did engineering back then and I recall a very clear separation from the two around mathematics levels )

If one looks at a "senior devs" cv, its important to ask, "What have they done since studies or if no studies", "What do they perceive as makes them a senior dev", "The patterns and practices they currently implement and what steps they take to keep current, even if not implemented".

As to self learning, been trying to teach my self quantum physics and mathematics but it makes my head hurt, pure abstract math's always has.

 

[rvZA]

This is nothing uncommon in SA. People are using fake degrees to get jobs on a daily basis. Free degrees from universities do not help either. These degrees are dished out like lollipops just to get the grinding machine going. Never, ever, expect an honest country where people do not lie about these things or have a legitimate IT degree but does not even know how to operate a computer.

 

[tridev]

So...what did you lie about on your C.V. or during YOUR interview?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"...........

I don't. I undersell myself. Hence why I take notice of these things and post about it. as I am curious about others expereiences

 

[Sinbad]

I subscribe more to this:

Being dishonest is certainly not an attitude or personality trait I hire for.

That being said, for certain roles, some skills are absolutely non-negotiable and the purpose of the CV/interview would be to interrogate those as well as to establish personality traits.

 

[tridev]

Those are not white lies. White lies are if the HR person asks if those jeans make their bum look big and you say no to spare their feelings.

Maybe you can find an actual example of white lie that might be found on a CV?

I just go look at LinkedIn profiles of people I have work with in the past and notice how they describe their job duties and job titles which I know its not true.

They amend their work history and job titles to fit in with their current role when I know that was not their job title. or job duties. It's easier to apply to a new title than get promoted to it. Managers I find do everything to gaslight employees to think they don't get non inflationary increases.

 

[tridev]

She got fooled by a scammer, happens, they always have sob stories.

Issue is he used her as a recruiter and convinces her with fraudulent information. Is the job of a recruiter not to do basic verification or must you trust blindly? He also has a B.Sc degree in Computer Science and Informatics which AFAIK is not possible. You have it in one or the other so I suspect it might be fake.

I looked up his profile now again as I was curious what happened to him:

- If you remove the fake employment it means he has had no dev experience in his life but his salary expectation is R60K per month in Feb for a dev position when I asked.
- I contacted him in Feb 2021 last year when he was supposedly unemployed for months but the job he was never employed at lists May 2021 as the end period.
- He got a job in May 2021 and kept it for 5 months at a company without a Linkedin profile.
- In Dec 2021 started a new job at a Rosebank company that has a linkedin profile. Both the responsibilities he listed one couldn't have done in such a short time.

 

[Spacerat]

Negligent of the company not doing the background check in the first place

 

[cguy]

My point though is that I attended tertiary over two decades ago. While the fundamentals hold, technology has changed so much since then that it is purely principals and fundamentals that are relevant.

The principles and fundamentals are huge though. Apart from these, even in terms of technology, it's not like the changes haven't been somewhat incremental - ~25-30 years ago: networking (IP4, internet, signal processing, etc.), OpenGL, C++, SQL/ODBC, OS internals, assembler, CPU architecture, LISP, compilers, parsers, Python, Matlab, distributed computing, multi-threading, locking, etc. (somewhat of an overlap between technology and principles in the list, but mainly where the used archetypes are close to what we have today, albeit more primitive).

Everything else, is learnt from that time with additional study whether it be courses , self taught or online.

Agreed, although the probability of these being topics of a more advanced nature is greatly reduced without the above mentioned principles and fundamentals. Not to say, it won't typically go "beyond matric" - it does for a bit, but then tends to grow more in breadth than depth.

As to advanced mathematics, many folks drifted that way to teaching themselves more advanced structures, especially with the rise of data science and AI.

This is actually a case in point. There are a lot of self-taught or bootcamp taught data scientists / ML practitioners out there, but they barely touch on the fundamentals or the math (interestingly enough, most think they do, because they don't have a reference point). The reality is that for the most part (I say most, because there are certainly people who do it properly, but they are a very small minority), there is a world of difference between people working in this area with no degree level qualification, those with one, and even more so, those with post-graduate STEM qualifications.

Also if I recall, most comsci degrees are relatively light on mathematics these days ( did engineering back then and I recall a very clear separation from the two around mathematics levels )

This is true - 2nd year maths used to be a requirement, but no longer is. It is still a large advantage, to have those pure CS principles, but it's a huge advantage to have some of maths/app.maths./stats to 2nd or 3rd year level and beyond, especially if one wants to advance to the point where one reads, implements, or even writes academic papers with some level of frequency.

 

[DapperDanMan]

Just don't lie, if a senior dev is good, they are fat beyond what they are taught at uni or would have been.

Either that or morbidly obese.

 

[KingMikel]

@tridev why did you lie about your degree?