Biggest ADSL bandwidth hogs in SA

I must after seeing the way VOX handles their Uncapped FUP I really like it. Only problem is that they need a premium a account with higher thresholds. Or at least release a 20Meg account so that I can use it on my 10Meg Line.

Throttling to 56k is retarded. Means I cannot use the account anymore so it's useless. This half speed though is perfect. means I can get a hint that I need to download less, while still being able to use Netflix.
 
25% doesn't work across the board for all uncapped line speeds, as no uncapped accounts are priced at this mark, especially as you get faster (take 20Mbps multipled by what you reckon IPC+international+other expenses costs and divide by 4 - it ain't what you're paying for 20Mbps, that's for sure - it would imply a 4:1 contention on uncapped - some unscrupulous ISPs run their contention at 50+:1). If I look at uncapped only, if we invoked a throttle policy on our uncapped with rather high "FUPs" we could reduce input costs by around 25% and push that back into the network to pretty much unshape everyone, at all times. It is something we have always considered, however there is a far better way to do this fairly than with throttle limits, and that's to use prioritisation instead. If you're throttled, you're throttled - that's it. With deprioritisation even those who are deprioritised can still get great performance when the network opens up a bit in terms of usage. But when the network gets tight those with less usage will be rewarded with better performance if they require it before you.

I'm very open to suggestions, and always have been, and quite enjoy these debates, even if we're excluded from the articles themselves. I'm also very open about things with MyBB members, having been on one side of the fence for a very long time and now for 2 years managing the commercial and business side and the realities thereof.

So, what's your ideal account? Likelihood is it's not the ideal account for everyone, and likelihood is everyone will have a different perspective on what the costs should be too...

Being able to unshape everyone seems like an extremely compelling reason to curtail data hogs. Being throttled doesn't mean you have no internet access. As long as you were transparent about the throttling thresholds for each account, and those thresholds were generous, it would be hard for anyone to complain. Mweb incited a minor exodus because they were neither transparent nor generous with their thresholds on the premium accounts.

Seeing as you're asking for suggestions and what my ideal account would be:

As you might remember from my enquiry in the CW thread, I'm getting fibre from November. Obviously I'd love to join CW with a capped account, what with the insane international latency claim on your website, the express maximum speed of 100Mbps, ISP of the year stuff etc. But the only account I can see possibly working for my household is the 425+1575GB one. Accounting for R849pm line rental, the total price is a whopping R2044pm - quite an increase from the R1197pm I currently pay Afrihost.

CW's 325+1175GB account is R300 cheaper (R1744pm incl. line rental), which is disappointing to me as that's more money than a 100GB account. Shouldn't bandwidth get cheaper per gig the more you buy? I would assume the 100GB account is more likely to be fully used, whereas with 425GB I would expect a likelihood of a decent amount of the bandwidth being headroom so that the user doesn't have to constantly monitor their usage or stress about being capped. As things stand I'll have to go with Afrihost, as their 200+200GB (R799pm) and Afrihost Plus (R99pm) would give 600GB of anytime data for a total of R1747pm. If your 425+1575GB was just a bit closer to that number I'd be happy to pay a little extra for a superior quality account.

But again, I don't know what your costs are. Maybe the margins on the smaller accounts are rubbish and the money is made on the larger accounts.
 

I can see you're quite passionate about your harsh throttling, but need to disagree. VOX and Neotel's way of halving line speed is WAY more considerate and sensible. As I said above they just need a premium option with double the thresholds.
 
Disagree - If you see someone at an all you can eat buffet stacking ups the plate with lobster, smoked salmon and caviar...
Then he spends 6 hours there non stop...
Hog? Its all you can eat after all.

Hog isn't anything to do with legality..

So what? He paid to be there. If there is a problem with what he is doing then it's up to the people in charge to sort it out.
What do you think that you can tell other people what they can and can't do?

lol. I bet you also drive at 120km/h in the right lane to police people driving faster than you.
 
So what? He paid to be there. If there is a problem with what he is doing then it's up to the people in charge to sort it out.
What do you think that you can tell other people what they can and can't do?

lol. I bet you also drive at 120km/h in the right lane to police people driving faster than you.

Wow you're a real contributor to society aren't you.
 
Being able to unshape everyone seems like an extremely compelling reason to curtail data hogs. Being throttled doesn't mean you have no internet access. As long as you were transparent about the throttling thresholds for each account, and those thresholds were generous, it would be hard for anyone to complain. Mweb incited a minor exodus because they were neither transparent nor generous with their thresholds on the premium accounts.

Seeing as you're asking for suggestions and what my ideal account would be:

As you might remember from my enquiry in the CW thread, I'm getting fibre from November. Obviously I'd love to join CW with a capped account, what with the insane international latency claim on your website, the express maximum speed of 100Mbps, ISP of the year stuff etc. But the only account I can see possibly working for my household is the 425+1575GB one. Accounting for R849pm line rental, the total price is a whopping R2044pm - quite an increase from the R1197pm I currently pay Afrihost.

CW's 325+1175GB account is R300 cheaper (R1744pm incl. line rental), which is disappointing to me as that's more money than a 100GB account. Shouldn't bandwidth get cheaper per gig the more you buy? I would assume the 100GB account is more likely to be fully used, whereas with 425GB I would expect a likelihood of a decent amount of the bandwidth being headroom so that the user doesn't have to constantly monitor their usage or stress about being capped. As things stand I'll have to go with Afrihost, as their 200+200GB (R799pm) and Afrihost Plus (R99pm) would give 600GB of anytime data for a total of R1747pm. If your 425+1575GB was just a bit closer to that number I'd be happy to pay a little extra for a superior quality account.

But again, I don't know what your costs are. Maybe the margins on the smaller accounts are rubbish and the money is made on the larger accounts.

Majority of the cost increase you're referring to here is for the line itself and not the data account from us. At the end of the day, cheap data will be lower quality data. We all work on similar costing models and input costs, so at the end of the day you need to decide who you believe has the better quality network and backbone, and identify a suitable account within your budget for your requirements on said backbone and network. The only alternative is cheaper, lower quality bandwidth meaning you can probably get huge gigs but sacrifice on gaming and streaming to some extent.

We're re-evaluating certain things, and I'm currently busy with new products, pricing, and value-adds. An announcement in this respect will be communicated via our press office very soon...
 
Majority of the cost increase you're referring to here is for the line itself and not the data account from us. At the end of the day, cheap data will be lower quality data. We all work on similar costing models and input costs, so at the end of the day you need to decide who you believe has the better quality network and backbone, and identify a suitable account within your budget for your requirements on said backbone and network. The only alternative is cheaper, lower quality bandwidth meaning you can probably get huge gigs but sacrifice on gaming and streaming to some extent.

We're re-evaluating certain things, and I'm currently busy with new products, pricing, and value-adds. An announcement in this respect will be communicated via our press office very soon...

Hopefully something with RollOver.

Vox really seems to get a lot fo things right.
 
So what? He paid to be there. If there is a problem with what he is doing then it's up to the people in charge to sort it out.
What do you think that you can tell other people what they can and can't do?

lol. I bet you also drive at 120km/h in the right lane to police people driving faster than you.


I see nothing wrong with ISPs defining what they consider hoggish behaviour
And if you take all 20 lobsters from the buffet and I get don't get get a morsel... why shouldn't I say something?

Driving - The right lane is the overtaking lane and not the fast lane.
So I overtake in the overtaking lane and move over if someone behind me is going faster.
Now sitting in the overtaking lane and refusing to move..that is being a hog..
 
Hopefully something with RollOver.

Vox really seems to get a lot fo things right.

That's on the product list. Rollover sorts out the end of the month crunch when every capped customer tries to consume as many remaining gigs as possible, but it changes ones breakage costing model a bit as well, which is how ISPs are able to reduce pricing. I can't comment on Vox's offerings in this respect, but with respect to our side we're currently looking at more than just rollover in terms of adding more value...
 
Only for reference , Telkom Internet night-surfer :) using 10Mbps line. Would still like to see the other iSPs added here, especially interested to see Telkom Internet & Vox, the hidden treasures ;).

2015-10-05_11-31-52.jpg

Can't wait to see my usage drop when faster speeds are offered here, it is but the only truth i see mentioned. 100Mbps fibre means you cut down on downloads.

These "hogs" haven't tasted what Fibre is yet :whistle:

Edit: reduced image size :) , also this mainly applies to usage outside peak. I am still on a quest to find a balance for daytime. I hate telling my bro to limit his daily usage during the day just because with his history , it was adding up fast. Although we maybe okay for the next 6 months [x2 promo from Ti] , ideally, it must give us more than a 100GB per month, upto 600GB is a plan.
 
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That's on the product list. Rollover sorts out the end of the month crunch when every capped customer tries to consume as many remaining gigs as possible, but it changes ones breakage costing model a bit as well, which is how ISPs are able to reduce pricing. I can't comment on Vox's offerings in this respect, but with respect to our side we're currently looking at more than just rollover in terms of adding more value...

Yeah, i know that's why VOX is more expensive, BUT. It will also remove one of the needs for uncapped. Even if you have a limit of how much data can be carried over, it gives a lot of freedom to the user and may actually remove the need for uncapped. Since I have no idea how much data I will use every month, I use uncapped, it's just more practical for me. But if I know that my slow months can make up for my bad months, then no need for uncapped.

Would also make it great for a secondary backup account. That way GBs can pile while my primary account is fine, but when there are issues, the backup account will have plenty GBs there for me.

I know you're big on after hours GBs as well as prime time GBs are more expensive, but surely they can be calculated separately?
 
Wow you're a real contributor to society aren't you.

It is not your place to define what people can do and can't do. If you want to limit how many lobsters someone takes from a buffer then make your own buffet with your own limits.

If you end up not getting what you want, then go somewhere else that is better managed. But trying to impose your standards on other people when it isn't your job to do so is just pathetic.
 
It is not your place to define what people can do and can't do. If you want to limit how many lobsters someone takes from a buffer then make your own buffet with your own limits.

If you end up not getting what you want, then go somewhere else that is better managed. But trying to impose your standards on other people when it isn't your job to do so is just pathetic.

So you're ok with being a leech?

You sound like pirate trying to justify himself.
 
Majority of the cost increase you're referring to here is for the line itself and not the data account from us. At the end of the day, cheap data will be lower quality data. We all work on similar costing models and input costs, so at the end of the day you need to decide who you believe has the better quality network and backbone, and identify a suitable account within your budget for your requirements on said backbone and network. The only alternative is cheaper, lower quality bandwidth meaning you can probably get huge gigs but sacrifice on gaming and streaming to some extent.

We're re-evaluating certain things, and I'm currently busy with new products, pricing, and value-adds. An announcement in this respect will be communicated via our press office very soon...

I'm not complaining about the cost increase from ADSL to fibre - the R849pm line rental makes it clear that a big cost increase is inevitable. I'm just commenting on the differences between the options available to me.

I look forward to what CW has to announce regarding fibre. Hopefully such announcements will happen long before 1 Nov. I'll wait for those before committing to a fibre account.
 
Yeah, i know that's why VOX is more expensive, BUT. It will also remove one of the needs for uncapped. Even if you have a limit of how much data can be carried over, it gives a lot of freedom to the user and may actually remove the need for uncapped. Since I have no idea how much data I will use every month, I use uncapped, it's just more practical for me. But if I know that my slow months can make up for my bad months, then no need for uncapped.

Would also make it great for a secondary backup account. That way GBs can pile while my primary account is fine, but when there are issues, the backup account will have plenty GBs there for me.

I know you're big on after hours GBs as well as prime time GBs are more expensive, but surely they can be calculated separately?

You're on to something that forms part of our new releases. With respect to uncapped, it's an account type that if used within the parameters of the ISP can get you far more value out of the account than capped. Really the only reason for capped is if the rules underlying the uncapped account don't suit your needs or you're technically unable or even unwilling to abide by them.

Let's look at how we do things: everyone is unshaped on uncapped. Depending on peak usage, we adjust this to dynamic shaping (if need be), and further depending on peak usage, we deprioritise if the usage behaviour exceeds variables in an algorithm I've developed. This is far more fair than say an outright throttle on usage, because if that usage is outside of a peak period for us, why should we use that as contributing towards your shaping status or even throttling status? If your usage doesn't impact on the network significantly, and is within the bounds of being reasonable in terms of overall usage in peak, why should we care?

So that's really what we already do on uncapped, meaning we also have what MyBroadband would call "data hogs" who we are very happy with and whose accounts we don't touch in terms of network management or performance. The difference between basic and premium uncapped on our side is that premium is far more lenient on this, and basic has harsher deprioritisation rules for people who, say, are paying R195 but consuming hundreds of gigs in peak business and consumer hours. When we started Crystal Web the intention was to prove that uncapped is 100% sustainable. We've done this from a network and financial perspective. We're also showing that capped, if you prefer, has great benefits too, and we can add even more (which we are). And after a few ups and downs initially, we've selected the best backbone network in SA and have a spectacular partnership with Internet Solutions on this.

In all honesty, there are 2 very good backbone networks in SA right now, and one spectacularly run backbone network. I won't name the 2, but the one spectacular backbone is IS, there's just no two ways about it. We monitor all backbone networks in SA. If you want further honesty, there are only 3 ethically run ISPs in SA right now. Certain ISPs share data accounts on a pay per account model. Certain ISPs operate uncapped and capped on horrendous contentions. Certain ISPs claim not to throttle, yet they do. And certain ISPs employ combinations of these and more, and get by with decent marketing departments. It's always been our intention to bring openness and integrity to this business from the outset and remains that way. In order to do so, you have to operate on a superlative backbone network; you have to market honestly; you have to admit mistakes and fix them when they happen and communicate this effectively; and you have to evolve your products and business accordingly too. We've done most of these well but have failed on the odd occasion on one or two points, and always looked to rectify them almost immediately. We're far from perfect, and that gives us space to grow and be even better. So choosing an ISP is not always about price, however it has more often than not been the primary deciding factor for most consumers. We've reached price-points that are now low enough (in my opinion) where you can actually be a little picky though about who you opt for, and not simply use price as a determining factor. However "data hogs" as MyBroadband puts it, will nearly always opt for price as the determining factor over value-adds and quality, because it's all about consuming as many TBs as possible. To put this into perspective, the guy doing 8TBs per month costs his ISP at least R20,000 per month (maximum floor minimum he's costing without factoring numerous costs into the equation). Why would you want to advertise this and encourage it? And why would you want to do so while undergoing network problems? And how do your customers feel seeing that, while they can't get decent in-game ping? In my personal opinion (not speaking as the CEO of Crystal Web) that's not something I find very ethical.

Another point on this: IPC which forms the major cost to any ISP (and is often terribly maligned in the media, but is actually a decent product to ISPs from Telkom [but that's another story altogether]) costs the same to all ISPs, but that pricing is on a sliding scale on IPC spend. The more you buy the better operational pricing you can obtain. So when you discover an ISP with great performance, you should encourage everyone to join, contrary to the existing mindset that you should keep it quiet to avoid network contention increasing. Now because this pricing is pretty fixed, it means we all operate off similar cost bases. So when you're talking about a difference in price that is negligible between one provider and another, your real decision (to avoid further headaches later down the line) should, in my experience, be network quality. The pricing on xDSL connectivity has reached a point where you can now value quality more than quantity, and is how we as an ISP for instance make our determinations as well...
 
So you're ok with being a leech?

You sound like pirate trying to justify himself.

whatwhat is a Crystal Web customer, and I can confirm that your assumptions are incorrect. whatwhat is one of a rare breed of customer who values quality and is prepared to pay for said quality rather than opting for the cheapest with the most gigs. It's an educated decision and one borne from a deep understanding of the market, and that's valued from an ISP's perspective tremendously. People are often too quick to jump down each others' throats on these topics. It's best to hear each other out and find common ground, or at least try to understand from someone else's perspective...
 
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whatwhat is a Crystal Web customer, and I can confirm that your assumptions are incorrect. whatwhat is one of a rare breed of customer who values quality and is prepared to pay for said quality rather than opting for the cheapest with the most gigs. It's an educated decision and one borne from a deep understanding of the market, and that's valued from an ISP's perspective tremendously. People are often too quick to jump down each others' throats on these topics. It's best to hear each other out and find common ground, or at least try to understand from someone else's perspective...

Rare indeed.

Out of interest, how popular is the account they're using?
 
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