Bloggers question terror threat

[Nanfeishen]

In the 60's 70's and early 80's communism was the the big enemy, peoples phones were tapped , mail intercepted, the public watched each other, there was suspicion about colleagues and spying was rampantly done by governments on their people, the poulation was generally in fear of the "threat" of communism, and people reported on each other, here it was the apartheid regime who instilled the same tactics.
Then low and behold the iron curtain came down and there was no more threat, civil liberties were free and people could travel freely , lobbyists all over fought to keep peoples rights and seemed to be winning as far as the right to privacy, the right to freedom of speech and the right to freedom from interference from government, so we have governments losing their grip on their people, losing control of the information being handed to the man in the street and they cant afford to let that happen , because maybe ,just maybe the man in the street may realise they dont really need all this control anyway , or that they dont need serious government , or be told how to live their lives or bear constant watching.
Enter terrorism, conveniently international, conveniently violent, conveniently obscure, conveniently ellusive.
Emter the man in the streets fear factor , enter the big strong government, enter electronic monitoring, surveilance, the loss of freedoms under the terrorism acts, the loss of liberties, the loss of complacency, the almost total control of peoples lives by the state, the move to gag mass rallies, freedom of the press, monitoring of chat rooms, enter paranoia and control.

 

[xtermin8or]

1. Is the organisation that was behind 9-11 still in place?
2. Are the terrorists willing to die for their cause?
3. Is information available to these people showing them how to build bombs?
4. Are these people receiving money to enable them to carry out their aims?
5. Are these people receiving instructions/support/advice from organisations abroad?

Heres the answers

1. Yes there is still a Republican in the White House
2. Not themselves, but their military will
3. now part of CIA and Marine basic training
4. yes, the Bush family is loaded
5. support from Blair, I guess you could say yes

 

[xtermin8or]

Governments are frequently the main enemy of the people, always suspect them - me...

me I suspect bloggers * looks into mirror * * screams *

 

[bwana]

Heres the answers

1. Yes there is still a Republican in the White House
2. Not themselves, but their military will
3. now part of CIA and Marine basic training
4. yes, the Bush family is loaded
5. support from Blair, I guess you could say yes

Well, arent you insulated from reality.

 

[kilo39]

Well, arent you insulated from reality.

Isn't it interesting - that the people that accuse others of being paranoid (a good healthy condition) and 'insulated' from reality are the same people that unquestionably accept their own.

Let's see: we went from al quada to fundamentalist extremists to radical terrorists to islamists to fascists (the last bush gem) - (I probably missed out a few in-between.) We've gone from 9/11 to invading iraq - because saddam was supporting/harboring al quada and/or producing/stockpiling wmd's - both of which claims have been resoundingly dismissed. Oh, but - in the end - he was just a tyrant (ignoring the history and any diplomacy) - (we then go on to kill hundreds of thousands of citizens, rape their children, torture their woman - and generally act like scumbags far worse than saddam ever was...) Then to top it all - 'they' are suddenly fighting a war against al quada in iraq. This is never forgetting good 'ol bin laden of course - now I wonder where he may be? (in our world of satellites, drones and electronic eavesdropping.)...

Further (for all who aren't laughing hysterically by now) - we have the two cases I pointed to in my response before: where essentially the fbi had set up a bunch of drones - to commit terrorism in the name of al quada or islam or whatever - basically lead them down the path - then 'arrested' them. We had a similiar case (if not more) in the uk... Similarly documentation exists to show the fbi had similar 'relations' with the cel that took down the WTC (and the rest of that fiasco)...

This from a country who lost a president to assassination (oh ya, the lone gunman) - and other lumieres who have been 'assassinated' - and either there are questions about the fall guy - or unsolved.

Clinton gutted the military/it was essentially stood down with bases closing throughout america and europe. Then george bush came to power - 'all of a sudden' we had WTC and the whole escalating mess since - and a rejunivated military - and military industrial complex.

Since WTC we have a steadily increasing rhetoric (now culminating in Fascists) - and we have numerous 'security threats' - real bombings and wars on at least 2 fronts.

Parallel to all this we have vast electronic surveillance in the states (and worldwide, largely illegal) - unprecedented invasions of privacy (in terms of american law) - etc. The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, a massive upscaling of the whole eavesdropping apparatus while reclassifying and making secret vast amounts of documents previously open - more secrecy, more paranoia(!) - more control (worldwide dna database upcoming) -.

All precedented on 9/11 - a setup similar to the above "foiled" attempts. In the meantime BL is picking flowers and Israel is invading Lebanon.

Well - you lot can continue in your myopic view of the world - and I will continue in my happy paranoia... sort of reminds of "gee, we didn't know it was happening."

 

[bwana]

Well - you lot can continue in your myopic view of the world - and I will continue in my happy paranoia... sort of reminds of "gee, we didn't know it was happening."

Not myopic - just realistic. Gee - it wasnt happening.

 

[noxibox]

The terror threat is as real as you can get. It seem you have forgotten the horrors of 9-11 and 7-7 ... probably because you feel safer here in the sun. Ask yourself the following:

1. Is the organisation that was behind 9-11 still in place?
2. Are the terrorists willing to die for their cause?
3. Is information available to these people showing them how to build bombs?
4. Are these people receiving money to enable them to carry out their aims?
5. Are these people receiving instructions/support/advice from organisations abroad?

While there are still gaps in security which would enable them to carry out attacks, we all have to be vigilant. Saying this is just one big conspiracy is not going to help you or your relatives when the time comes.

The reason this didn't happen before, is 1 - because of security/intelligence and 2 -the fact that not many groups wanted to die for their cause.

Was any organisation behind the 9-11 attacks?
Where have they been for the last 5 years?
If they're willing to die for their cause why not just strap on some massive explosives and blow yourselves up all over the place? A few massive car bombs will easily kill thousands.
Can anybody build bombs? Pretty much yes. Are they the super-high tech bombs we hear so much about? Maybe, but so far no-one has presented evidence these bombs have ever existed.
Maybe they are receiving instructions/support/advice from some mysterious organisation, maybe they aren't. If they are it is hardly something that sprang into existence in 2001. So no there is no new and different threat in the world.
There have always been more than enough people willing to die for whatever their cause may be.
Security and intelligence services have their place, investigating and gathering information. Not staging threats to frighten people into accepting a reduction in freedom. What just happened was planned for the media.

Before when didn't this happen?

The reason this doesn't happen that often is because the people behind these attacks just don't carry out that many attacks.

And the attackers behind the attack in Britain last year were lone gunmen, not from or getting assistance from any organisation. This type of attacker will never target anything like air travel. It is simple too much hassle and too complicated. Much easier to blow up trains, busses, cars, movie theaters, pubs, libraries, fish shops, etc. Maybe we should all hide at home?

Britain had decades of internal terrorism. We in South Africa grew up with bombs going off from time to time. One killed someone close to me and almost killed another. Every time we went into a bar or stepped into a lift there was always the possibility that it would be blown to smithereens with us in it.

You've got more chance of dying in a car accident in the UK than getting blasted into little pieces in the sky. And that's with airport security at the relatively casual level.

BTW the whole point of a group like al Qaeda is that they aren't an organisation. They're so loose knit and frankly disorganised you can barely call them a group. People allegedly associated with them have not carried out the huge number of attacks that would be expected if they were the danger they're claimed to be.

 

[noxibox]

Count the number of verified thwarted plots. Count the number of public transport vehicles that travel everyday. You could even choose to include only aircraft. See how tiny is your chances of being on an aircraft that gets blown out of the sky.

Be careful crossing the road to get to the airport though.

 

[noxibox]

Depends - do you want to ignore the London bombings (56 dead), 9/11 (2,752 dead), the Madrid Train attacks (191 dead), the nightclub bombing in Bali (202 dead), etc? I'm convinced there is a threat.

The previous World Trade Center bombing, the London pub bombings, the Oklahoma City bombing, the Planet Hollywood bombing, various bombs in South Africa in the 70s and 80s...

Why suddenly become fearful now?

 

[noxibox]

sort of reminds of "gee, we didn't know it was happening."

Didn't know what was happening?

 

[bwana]

Oh good, so I'm not the only one. But this doesn't solve my problem of knowing how real the terrorist threat actually is :/

Depends - do you want to ignore the London bombings (56 dead), 9/11 (2,752 dead), the Madrid Train attacks (191 dead), the nightclub bombing in Bali (202 dead), etc? I'm convinced there is a threat.

The previous World Trade Center bombing, the London pub bombings, the Oklahoma City bombing, the Planet Hollywood bombing, various bombs in South Africa in the 70s and 80s...

Why suddenly become fearful now?

No, why doubt the validity of the threat now.

 

[kilo39]

Didn't know what was happening?

People dying in detention - being tortured for their beliefs... disappearances, etc.