Bombshell Claim: Scientists Find "Man-made Climate Change Doesn't Exist In Practice"

Ponderer said:
I find it (mildly) amusing that many people accept it as a (scientifically proven) fact that CO2 emissions is the reason for global warming.
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I find it amusing that you are so amused by scientific theory when you don't even believe in evolution, but believe in a god using his finger to shoot things into existence
 
Gingerbeardman said:
Lol, you both made low-effort contributions to attack something you didn't even bother to try to understand.
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On the contrary. I understand enough physics, chemistry and engineering to not bother reading a patent for perpetual motion machines. I know its wrong, I don't have the energy to track down the flaws in the argument. Same with this theory...
 
Ponderer said:
I find it (mildly) amusing that many people accept it as a (scientifically proven) fact that CO2 emissions is the reason for global warming.
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In general I find the current situation remarkably similar to religious factions arguing. Each side believes it has had some kind of divine revelation and has radicals that call the other factions evil and demands the propegation of all competing doctrine be suppressed by any means necessary.....
 
STS said:
I find it amusing that you are so amused by scientific theory when you don't even believe in evolution, but believe in a god using his finger to shoot things into existence
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If you are going to assert that you should be able to provide supporting scripture claiming it....
 
Gordon_R said:
On the contrary. I understand enough physics, chemistry and engineering to not bother reading a patent for perpetual motion machines. I know its wrong, I don't have the energy to track down the flaws in the argument. Same with this theory...
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You can tell me what's wrong with the theory for perpetual motion, yes?

What's wrong with this theory?
 
Aquila ka Hecate said:
A consensus of numbskulls voting for a known idiot, such as Trump, is a far cry from a consensus of intelligent peoplpe with years of training and research.
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You are clearly of the opinion that CO2 emissions is the cause of global warming.
Is your opinion based on science, or is it based on the opinion of a particular group of scientists.
 
Presentation by Dr. Brian Tinsley.
(Who is Brian Tinsley?)

Ph.D. - Physics
University of Canterbury - 1963
M.Sc. - Physics
University of Canterbury - 1961
B.Sc. - Physics
University of Canterbury - 1958

His Publications:
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Parameterization of Aerosol Scavenging due to Atmospheric Ionization under Varying Relative Humidity, Liang Zhang and B. A. Tinsley, J. Geophys. Res. Atmos., 122, 5330-5350, doi:10.1002/2016JD026255, 2017. 2017 - Publication

The Zonal-Mean and Regional Tropospheric Pressure Responses to Changes in Ionospheric Potential, L. Zhou, B. Tinsley, L. Wang, and G. Burns, J. Atmos. Solar Terr. Phys., doi:10.1016/j.jastp.2017.07.010, 2017. 2017 - Publication

Parameterization of In-Cloud Aerosol Scavenging due to Atmospheric Ionization Part 2: Effects of Varying Particle Density, Liang Zhang and B. A. Tinsley, J. Geophys. Res. Atmos., submitted. 2017 - Publication

Foreword: Special Issue on “Effects of the Solar Wind and Interplanetary Disturbances on the Earth’s Atmosphere and Climate, E. Rozanov, K. Georgeiva, I. Mironova, B. Tinsley and A. Aylward, J. Atmos. Solar Terr. Phys., 149, 146-150,doi.1016/j.jastp.2016.08.012, 2017. 2017 - Publication

Atmospheric Global Circuit Variations from Vostok and Concordia Electric Field Measurements, G. B. Burns, A. V. Frank-Kamenetsky, B. A. Tinsley, W. J. R. French, P. Grigioni, G. Camporeale and E. A. Bering, J. Atmos. Sci., 74, 783-800, doi:10.1175/JAS-D-16-0159.1, 2017. 2017 - Publication

Correlations of Global Sea Surface Temperature with the Solar Wind Speed, L. Zhou, B. A. Tinsley, H. Chu, Z. Xiao, J. Atmos. Solar Terr. Phys., 149, 232-239,doi.1016/j.jastp.2016.02.010, 2016. 2016 - Publication

Parameterization of Aerosol Scavenging due to Atmospheric Ionization, B. A. Tinsley and L. Zhou, J. Geophys. Res. Atmos., 120, doi:10.1002/2014JD023016, 2015. 2015 - Publication

Solar Wind – Atmospheric Electricity – Cloud Microphysics Connections to Weather and Climate, M. M. Lam and B. A. Tinsley, J. Atmos. Solar Terr. Phys., 149, 277-290, doi:/10.1016/j.jastp.2015.10.019 2015. 2015 - Publication

Effects on Winter Circulation of Short and Long Term Solar Wind Changes, L. Zhou, B. A. Tinsley and J. Huang, Adv. Space Res., 54, 2478-2490, 2014. 2014 - Publication

Comments on “Effect of Electric Charge on Collisions between Cloud Droplets, by N. H. Fletcher”, J. Appl. Meteorol. Climatol., 53(5), 1317-1320, 2014. 2014 - Publication

Charge modulation of scavenging in clouds, Extension of Monte-Carlo simulations and initial parameterization, Brian A. Tinsley and Deborah B. Leddon, Journal of Geophysical Research, 118, 8612-8624, doi:10.1002/jgrd.50618, 2013. 2013 - Publication

Global Electric Circuit Modulation of Winter Cyclone Vorticity in Northern High Latitudes, L. Hebert III, B. A. Tinsley and L. Zhou, Adv. Space Res,50, 806-818, doi.10.1016/j.asr.2012.03.02, 2012. 2012 - Publication

Monthly Global Atmospheric Circuit Estimates Derived from Vostok Electric Field Measurements Adjusted for Local Meteorological and Solar Wind Influences, G. B. Burns, B. A. Tinsley, A. V. Frank-Kamenetsky, O. A. Troshichev, W. J. R. French and A. R. Klekociuk, J. Atmos. Sci., 69(6), 2061-2082, 2012. 2012 - Publication

A Working Hypothesis for Connections Between Electrically-induced Changes in Cloud Microphysics and Storm Vorticity, with Possible Effects on Circulation, B. A. Tinsley, Adv. Space Res, 50, 791-805, doi.10.1016/j.asr.2012.04.008, 2012. 2012 - Publication

Time Dependent Charging of Layer Clouds in the Global Electric Circuit, L. Zhou and B. A. Tinsley, Adv. Space Res, 50, 828-842, doi:10.1016/j.asr.2011.12.18, 2012. 2012 - Publication

The Role of Volcanic Aerosols and Relativistic Electrons in Modulating Winter Storm Vorticity, B. A. Tinsley, L. Zhou and W. Liu, Adv. Space Res, 50, 819-827, doi:10.1016/j.asr.2011.12.019, 2012. 2012 - Publication

Charge Modulation of Aerosol Scavenging (CMAS) Causing Storm Invigoration: Possible Effects on Downstream Blocking and European Winter Circulation, Extended Abstract #233, International Conference on Clouds and Precipitation, Leipzig, Germany, July 30 - August 3, 2012 2012 - Publication

The Links Between Atmospheric Vorticity, Radiation Belt Electrons, and the Solar Wind, Irina Mironova, B. A. Tinsley and Limin Zhou, Adv. Space Res, 50, 783-790, doi:10.1016/j.asr.2011.03.043, 2011. 2011 - Publication

Global Circuit Model with Clouds, L. Zhou and B. A. Tinsley, Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, 67,1143-1155, 2010. 2010 - Publication

Electric Charge Modulation of Aerosol Scavenging in Clouds: Rate Coefficients with Monte-Carlo Simulations of Diffusion, B. A. Tinsley, J. Geophys. Res., 115, D23211, 2010. 2010 - Publication

Scavenging in Weakly Electrified Saturated and Subsaturated Clouds, Treating Aerosol Particles and Droplets as Conducting Spheres, L. Zhou, B. A. Tinsley and A. Plemmons, Journal of Geophysical Research, 114, D18201, doi 10.1029/2008JD11527, 2009. 2009 - Publication

The Terrestrial Cosmic Ray Flux: Its Importance for Climate, M. Ram. M. R.Stolz and B. A. Tinsley, Eos, Trans. Am. Geophys. Un., 90, (44), 397-398, 2009. 2009 - Publication

Other Climate Change Inputs, B. A. Tinsley, Physics Today, 62, (11), 12, 2009. 2009 - Publication

The Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit and its Effects on Cloud Microphysics, Reports on Progress in Physics, 71, 066801 (31pp.), doi:10.1088/1034-4885/71/6/066801, 2008 2008 - Publication

Atmospheric Circuit Influences on Ground Level Pressure in the Antarctic and Arctic, G. B. Burns, B. A. Tinsley, W. J. R. French, O. A. Troshichev and A. V. Frank-Kamenesky, Journal of Geophysical Research, 113, D15112, 2008. 2008 - Publication

Variations in Global Cloud Cover and the Fair Weather Electric Field, D. R. Kniveton, B. A. Tinsley, G. B. Burns, E. A. Bering, and O. A. Troshichev, Journal of Atmospheric and Terrestrial Physics, 70, 1633-1642, 2008. 2008 - Publication

Interplanetary Magnetic Field and Atmospheric Electric Circuit Influences on Ground Level Pressure at Vostok,G. B. Burns, B. A. Tinsley, A. V. Frank-Kamenetsky and E. A. Bering, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112, D04103, 2007. 2007 - Publication

The Production of Space Charge in Clouds, L. Zhou and B. A. Tinsley, J. Geophys Res.,112, D11203, doi10.1029/2006JD007998, 2007. 2007 - Publication

The Role of the Global Electric Circuit in Solar and Internal Forcing of Clouds and Climate, B. A. Tinsley, G. B. Burns and L. Zhou, Advances in Space Research, 40, 1126-1139, doi:10.1016/j.asr.2007.01.071, 2007. 2007 - Publication

Changes in Scavenging of Particles by Droplets due to Weak Electrification in Clouds. B. A. Tinsley, L. Zhou and A. Plemmons, Atmospheric Research, 78, 266-295, 2006. 2006 - Publication

Initial results of a Global Circuit Model with Variable Stratospheric and Tropospheric Aerosols, B. A. Tinsley and L. Zhou, Journal of Geophysical Research, 111, D16205, 1-23, 2006. 2006 - Publication

Antarctic Polar Plateau Vertical Electric Field Variations Across Heliocentric Current Sheet Crossings, G. B. Burns, B. A. Tinsley, A. R. Klekocuik, O. A. Troshichev, A. V. Frank-Kamenetsky, M. l. Duldig, E. A. Bering and J. M. Clem, Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics, 68, 639-654, 2006. 2006 - Publication

On the Variability of the Stratospheric Column Resistance in the Global Electric Circuit, B. A. Tinsley, in press, Atmospheric Research, 76, 78-94, 2005. 2005 - Publication

Daily Changes in Global Cloud Cover and Earth Transits of the Heliospheric Current Sheet, D. R. Kniveton and B. A. Tinsley, Journal of Geophysical Research, 109, D11201, 2004. 2004 - Publication

Atmospheric Transparency Changes Associated with Solar Wind-Induced Atmospheric Electricity Variations, V. C. Roldugin and B. A. Tinsley, Journal of Atmospheric and Terrestrial Physics, 66, 1143-1149, 2004. 2004 - Publication

Scavenging of Condensation Nuclei in Clouds: Dependence of Sign of Electroscavenging Effect on Droplet and CCN Sizes, B. A. Tinsley, 14th Int. Conf. on Clouds and Precipitation, Bologna, Italy, 18-23 July, 2004. 2004 - Publication

Electroscavenging in Clouds with Broad Droplet Size Distributions and Weak Electrification, B. A. Tinsley, R. P. Rohrbaugh, and M. Hei, Atmospheric Research 59-60, 115-135, 2001. 2001 - Publication

Influence of Solar Wind on the Global Electric Circuit, and Inferred effects on Cloud Microphysics, Temperature, and Dynamics in the Troposphere, B. A. Tinsley, Space Science Reviews 94 (1-2), 231-258, 2000. 2000 - Publication

Effects of Image Charges on the Scavenging of Aerosol Particles by Cloud Droplets, and on Droplet Charging and Possible Ice Nucleation Processes, B. A. Tinsley, R. P. Rohrbaugh, M. Hei, and K. V. Beard, Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, 57, 2118-2134, 2000. 2000 - Publication
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The fatal flaw in Climate Science:

 
Gingerbeardman said:
And I'm sorry your half-baked take-down attempts aren't worth taking seriously.


No, your paper says warming causes clouds, not vice versa.
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BS! The paper tries to correlate the various effects of sea surface temperature, atmospheric moisture, and estimated inversion strength. It does not say anything about one causing the other. Atmospheric dynamics is a complex subject, and still not fully understood. This does not mean you can use this uncertainty as ammunition to support crackpot theories.
 
Gordon_R said:
WTF, @flippakitten and I agree on almost everything in this thread AFAIK.

Dispelling all of the half-truths in the OP would be exhausting, and not worth the effort. Its like doing someone else's homework for them...

Old saying: "Falsehoods can get halfway around the earth, before the truth has got its boots on".
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You just shot down your own argument.
Beware the foot-gun.
 
Gordon_R said:
BS! The paper tries to correlate the various effects of sea surface temperature, atmospheric moisture, and estimated inversion strength. It does not say anything about one causing the other. Atmospheric dynamics is a complex subject, and still not fully understood. This does not mean you can use this uncertainty as ammunition to support crackpot theories.
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No matter how you slice it, the goal of the paper is to predict cloud cover levels. It does not care about trying to determine how much of a role cloud cover plays in driving climate change.
 
Gingerbeardman said:
And I'm sorry your half-baked take-down attempts aren't worth taking seriously.


No, your paper says warming causes clouds, not vice versa.
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Clouds cause warming and warming causes clouds.
Sl8er said:
Presentation by Dr. Brian Tinsley.
(Who is Brian Tinsley?)

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Thank you!

Now this is completely different to the half baked effort posted originally. This is something I will take seriously.
 
Gingerbeardman said:
You can tell me what's wrong with the theory for perpetual motion, yes?

What's wrong with this theory?
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What's wrong with the cosmic rays and geomagnetism theory is that it is not falsifiable. Its just speculation. Its not even wrong, which could lead to a better theory.

According to Karl Popper, "a hypothesis must be falsifiable, and that a proposition or theory cannot be called scientific if it does not admit the possibility of being shown false".

Edit: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof for these fringe theories lies on those proposing them. It is not up to mainstream science to disprove them.

Edit: I sense a thread derail. I'm not used to Friday threads in the News sub-forum...
 
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Gordon_R said:
What's wrong with the cosmic rays and geomagnetism theory is that it is not falsifiable. Its just speculation. Its not even wrong, which could lead to a better theory.

According to Karl Popper, "a hypothesis must be falsifiable, and that a proposition or theory cannot be called scientific if it does not admit the possibility of being shown false".
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Is Popper's falsifiability criterion itself falsifiable?

Edit:

https://www.acsh.org/news/2016/08/19/falsification-was-karl-popper-wrong-about-science
 
rambo919 said:
In general I find the current situation remarkably similar to religious factions arguing. Each side believes it has had some kind of divine revelation and has radicals that call the other factions evil and demands the propegation of all competing doctrine be suppressed by any means necessary.....
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True - it boils down to what/who you (choose to) believe.
 
Gordon_R said:
BS! The paper tries to correlate the various effects of sea surface temperature, atmospheric moisture, and estimated inversion strength. It does not say anything about one causing the other. Atmospheric dynamics is a complex subject, and still not fully understood. This does not mean you can use this uncertainty as ammunition to support crackpot theories.
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Just in simple English state precisely what you disagree with. Because you keep on disagreeing, but you don't articulate what about exactly.
 
Gordon_R said:
Edit: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof for these fringe theories lies on those proposing them. It is not up to mainstream science to disprove them.

Edit: I sense a thread derail. I'm not used to Friday threads in the News sub-forum...
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You're spouting general maxims without actually addressing the claims themselves. Any idiot can tell you that a perpetual motion machine is impossible because of the principle of the conservation of energy. So if someone comes up with a perpetual motion theory, then you know exactly what to criticise about it.

But with this theory, you haven't given any specifics as to how we know it is wrong. General principles about needing lots of evidence without actually dealing with the evidence does not inspire confidence that you know what you are talking about, I'm sorry to say.

And as for it being a friday thread, it's my thread, and I put a popcorn avatar right at the beginning, so as far as I'm concerned getting into the details of how we should approach the paper's claims is well within the ambit of the thread.
 
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