You are sooo right! Denial, denial, denial!
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Border troops won't be honoured
- Thread starter Sneeky
- Start date
GavinMannion
Executive Member
Damn man keep on topic here. I can only think of so many things at once
I think this topic is dying... I'm going to go feed the troll... Cheers
Yup, he was shot for smuggling cocaine.
IamCanadian
Banned
Actually, the SADF won the battle but not the war. If they won the war they would be the ones in power now.
This is what I think about this issue. Myself and many of my family and friends were in the military during the early 80's and looking back we were just ignorant 19 year olds still wet behind the ears. We were all conscripted and if we did not want to serve, we had the choice of leaving the country or going to jail.
What did we know then except for women, surfing, wine and jolling. How many 19 year olds today do you know of that are politically astute. It is only later on when you have experiences that your opinions start to christalize. I honour those troops who fought alongside me, as misguided as many of us 19 years olds were, in spite of what intolerant ignoramuses like tibby.dude, extermin8tor and Angelo spout.
Many of the younger people here like tibby.dude, extermin8tor and Angelo are clueless about what life is really all about. Much like what we did when we were younger, they are now doing the same by swallowing their present paradigm hook, line and sinker and then spouting off on things that they really don't know anything about.
Having said that, if given the choice and knowing what I know now, would I allow myself to be conscripted into the SADF? I would have to say no and I am sure that many of my friends and family would also say no. Like I said we were clueless 19 year olds.
If anything mourn the loss of young lives on both sides who, if given the correct choices in those days by leaders who were themselves honourable, could have gone on to have made a difference in a free South Africa.
tibby.dude, extermin8tor and Angelo try to be more tolerant and then perhaps South Africa has a chance. If you continue to show your hatred for your own then South Africa will never get anywhere.
Just my opinion.
OhGats
Senior Member
I was one of those who served on the border, and our company lost 2 of its members during our period up there. Its very simple to sit back, having never been a conscript or having undergone what we went through to sit and generalise about what is right or what is wrong, it's easy to make comparisons with the SS and even easier to sit back from a position of safety and sprout about what's right and what's wrong. Like it or not, a very large proportion of us served in the SADF, and like it or not a large proportion of us as still in this country today, and believe it or not we also contributed towards the economy, technology, and safety of it.
What is not so easy is to know that somebody you stood guard duty with 2 weeks previously has been killed. Its also not easy to watch a 18 year of die of wounds, or a 2 year old get shredded by a bomb planted in a civilian establishment by a so called "freedom fighter". Its also not so easy to battle our 25 year old ghosts and watch everything going down the toilet by a crowd of people who are only interested in enriching themselves.
If the current bunch of clowns have decided to flush away what the national servicemen accomplished then it is their decision, all I know is what they have done is fundamentally wrong, the original concept behind that "freedom park" was that all fallen combatants would be remembered and a place would be created where their families could go and honour them. The whole thing has turned into a farce, and as far as I am concerned its about as valid a memorial as a fridge is to an eskimo!
Take your freedom park and flush it!
What is not so easy is to know that somebody you stood guard duty with 2 weeks previously has been killed. Its also not easy to watch a 18 year of die of wounds, or a 2 year old get shredded by a bomb planted in a civilian establishment by a so called "freedom fighter". Its also not so easy to battle our 25 year old ghosts and watch everything going down the toilet by a crowd of people who are only interested in enriching themselves.
If the current bunch of clowns have decided to flush away what the national servicemen accomplished then it is their decision, all I know is what they have done is fundamentally wrong, the original concept behind that "freedom park" was that all fallen combatants would be remembered and a place would be created where their families could go and honour them. The whole thing has turned into a farce, and as far as I am concerned its about as valid a memorial as a fridge is to an eskimo!
Take your freedom park and flush it!
Darth Garth
Executive Member
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mancombseepgood
Executive Member
lol
In other words - you cant teach an old dog new tricks!
Just kidding tibby
Don't worry about me ... my tolerance is just fine.
Btw I am 39 years old
In other words - you cant teach an old dog new tricks!
Just kidding tibby
Darth Garth
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The price paid
- 80,000 detentions without trial for periods of up to three years, including the detention of about 10,000 women and at least 15000 children under the age of 18;
- 73 deaths in detention recorded by the HRC as deaths while in the hands of the security police;
- 37 names of those who died while in custody of the uniformed police under politically-related circumstances;
- 3000 people served banning or restriction orders in terms of security legislation;
- 15000 people charged under security legislation since 1950 in political trials, and the 49 names of those who paid the ultimate price of political execution;
- 7000 political deaths between 1948 and 1989 and 46 massacres in that period, as well as 4000 lives lost and 22000 injuries in the period 1990 to the elections in 1994; and
- abductions (30), disappearances and internal assassinations (150).
Also the names of SADF troops of all races who fought in World War I and II and paid the ultimate price will also be part of the memorial.
- 80,000 detentions without trial for periods of up to three years, including the detention of about 10,000 women and at least 15000 children under the age of 18;
- 73 deaths in detention recorded by the HRC as deaths while in the hands of the security police;
- 37 names of those who died while in custody of the uniformed police under politically-related circumstances;
- 3000 people served banning or restriction orders in terms of security legislation;
- 15000 people charged under security legislation since 1950 in political trials, and the 49 names of those who paid the ultimate price of political execution;
- 7000 political deaths between 1948 and 1989 and 46 massacres in that period, as well as 4000 lives lost and 22000 injuries in the period 1990 to the elections in 1994; and
- abductions (30), disappearances and internal assassinations (150).
Also the names of SADF troops of all races who fought in World War I and II and paid the ultimate price will also be part of the memorial.
Skeptik
Banned
No sources for your figures??? I must assume you compiled the figures then
Does this include ANC/PAC/SACP/AZAPO abductions, assassinations, indiscriminate bombings of civilians - including in pubs and restaurants, deaths in custody for those in the ANC death camps etc..Let's have a little balance shall we comrade ...///\\\...
What about those that died in the Korean War? Oh, I forgot, they were the wrong colour... eh Tibby?
And after the '94 elections? Everyone dying of old age are they?
BTW, you're pretty immature for a 39 year old. Namecalling and insults are the marks of a child, so either you're lying about your age or you never grew up.
OhGats
Senior Member
I wonder where was Tibby Dude when the rest of us were chasing leaves on ver af bome.....
Just out of curiosity.
Just out of curiosity.
Darth Garth
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The Human Rights Committee on Tuesday submitted evidence collected by it and its forerunner, the Detainee Parents' Support Committee, over the past 15 years to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Handing A Crime Against Humanity: Understanding Apartheid Repression to commission chairman Archbishop Desmond Tutu, HRC head Max Coleman said: "It is our belief that the contents of this book have direct relevance to the investigations and mandate of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and we therefore respectfully submit that the manuscript be written unaltered into the record of the TRC's investigations.
http://www.doj.gov.za/trc/media/1997/9705/s970527b.htm
Darth Garth
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The health minister locked up 15,000 children and 80,000 people in jail ???.
Now if it was me I would just shut up and be ashamed about what was done in my name but then the typical Afrikaner arrogance and baaskap must rear it's ugly head.
IamCanadian
Banned
Don't worry about me ... my tolerance is just fine.
Btw I am 39 years old
Trust me, I am not worried about you.
I will continue to think that you are very intolerant of whites in general and it seems to me Afrikaaners in particular. Your intolerance comes through in many of your posts and I am sure many people here would agree with me.
I may be a troll and perhaps may even be accused of having an alterior motive here, but at least I have a sense of FAIR justice which is more than what your posts show.
You always seem so one sided and partial.
I cannot sanction SA's wars beyond its borders. They were false wars and we could always afford them (before the bite of sanctions.) They were proxy wars (which the sadf lost.) Unita and renamo: scourge on the land financed by the previous government. Communist onslaught? Only because the conditions were created for foreign freedom fighters to arise and seek finance.
None of this is the point. The point is those [-]troopies[/-] troepies gave their lives for what they perceived as their duty; or simply because they had no choice. They died, lambs to the slaughter: therefore like all slaughter they should be honoured along with the lives of "their enemies."
//edit//in fact here 'the incumbents' had an opportunity to build a monument to all south africans: what did they chose to do?!
None of this is the point. The point is those [-]troopies[/-] troepies gave their lives for what they perceived as their duty; or simply because they had no choice. They died, lambs to the slaughter: therefore like all slaughter they should be honoured along with the lives of "their enemies."
//edit//in fact here 'the incumbents' had an opportunity to build a monument to all south africans: what did they chose to do?!
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Skeptik
Banned
Well spoken.
I come across people like Tibby all the time. They refuse to accept there were generally two sides to apartheid, and that these factions willingly put away their weapons during reconciliation. They also believe THEIR side won and they are able to break the terms of the peace because THEY represent the majority. i.e. THEY are in charge and everyone and anyone who disagree can just go away!
This new conflict is decending into revenge politics, which is causing hurt and resentment between communities.
A good dose of history is prescribed for this ailment.
Don't be silly. People dying every single day because of AIDS, and soon TB, is going to outnumber those figures hands down. If the government think fighting AIDS is expensive, just wait for the new strain of TB. Our beloved government is not very quick on it's feet, not when it comes to actions.