Breaking news - firearm act

Whoop whoop!!!!!

Idjits!!!

I wonder what that idjit from Carte Blanche will have to say for himself.
 
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It was found the SAPS did not have capacity to deal with the hundreds of thousands of people who have not applied for gun licenses even if they did bring applications by next week Tuesday.

Wow, are there still hundreds of thousands owners who have not applied for renewals? That's a huge number to process in short time.
 

This means although the deadline for renewals expires next week, police will not be able to arrest gun owners as previously threatened.


.....sigh...... as i said Glock26 is gun dealer who wants R100 a month out of you for gun storage. He and the SAPS has been telling us what the "law says", but only the courts can decide what the law says.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

And the only part the article forgot to mention was this part: The ANC can arrest you , they can't prosecute you. Even if the constitution court rules that we must all hand in our guns tomorrow, they still can't force the NPA to prosecute. Why this part of our legal system doesn't get hammered down in the papers I don't know:
 
OK well how does this suck!

I went to go get my gun back and they refused.
If you have applied for deactivation or destruction it's too late.
( call National Firearms Call Centre (012) 353-6111 for confirmation).

Now this was only done under duress because I thought I would be arrested in 3 days if I still had it. I only handed it in last week - it's still in there safe!

Cops are full of BS and I even wonder how legal it all is.
It's my property.
As it turns out I still have a license for it.
I want it back.

Who knows how many years it's going to take to change the legislation and court cases etc.

Should I lay a charge of theft against SAP ?
 
Actually Capt Wookie...that is R90 per month for storage. :p
But close, so I'll give you a cookie.

Don't celebrate yet folks. We are all very glad for this ruling obviously. Contrary to some idiotic ppl's opinions....we don't want your guns. I have 15000 in stock, no room for more, and I really don't need your crap .25's and Rossi revolvers, thanks. Another safe is going to cost us R300K and your storage fees don't cover that anyways. So the ruling is a very welcome break.

However, this is purely a delay while the whole FCA is ruled on.
Obviously there is no chance in hell the govt is going to let the courts find the whole FCA unconstitutional. That would mean they have to pay out billions of rands to ppl whose guns were destroyed. They aren't going to let that happen.
Dir Bothma has also promised to follow through with this.

Have spoke to the police today and others with a stake. Although NO-ONE has a clue on what is really going to happen, our opinion is that this is just a temporary reprieve for now.

I think we are going to see everyone get a bit more time to relicence, and then the same thing is going to continue. Or you may have a grace period of a few more months to get rid of firearms. Either way, you are going to have to do something with those excess guns.

There are still a few hundred thousand guns that haven't been relicenced or taken care of.
Why did the last lawsuit fail? Because the courts said that the public had FIVE YEARS to relicence and didn't. The same logic is what is going to lose the argument here.

Anyways...for now we are all happy. For a few more days. Will post Dir. Bothma's letter to the police stations on Monday where he explains how to proceed.

All I know is that we aren't in the clear.
And that Mr Wookie still doesn't have a realistic clue of how things work in SA. But I digress...


G26
 
OK well how does this suck!

I went to go get my gun back and they refused.
If you have applied for deactivation or destruction it's too late.
( call National Firearms Call Centre (012) 353-6111 for confirmation).

Now this was only done under duress because I thought I would be arrested in 3 days if I still had it. I only handed it in last week - it's still in there safe!

Cops are full of BS and I even wonder how legal it all is.
It's my property.
As it turns out I still have a license for it.
I want it back.

Who knows how many years it's going to take to change the legislation and court cases etc.

Should I lay a charge of theft against SAP ?
If your gun is still there, in the safe, I would walk in there with a lawyer and ask to see the commissioner. Take a copy of the paper/judgement. If they still resist, get a court order and ask them to award costs against the SAPS.
 
and I really don't need your crap .25's and Rossi revolvers

Oh thanks very much bru. My 6.35mm is actually very good.

I fired 100 rounds, it was so hot I could hardly hold it and it did not jam once bud! Fabrique Nationale, a bit bigger than the baby browning.

And I could hide it in my shoe - almost. :D
 
Oh thanks very much bru. My 6.35mm is actually very good.

I fired 100 rounds, it was so hot I could hardly hold it and it did not jam once bud! Fabrique Nationale, a bit bigger than the baby browning.

And I could hide it in my shoe - almost. :D
I've got a .45 - it's a real gun (you only need to fire once). :p

:D
 
I've got a .45 - it's a real gun (you only need to fire once). :p

:D

He he, yes Bwana, I would have to empty the magazine. One shot would only make the crook more angry. :o

But 6.35mm (.25) was small and could be carried anywhere. I remember standinng in the long queue at the White Horse - and it was worth it - the gunfights outside in the parking lot was scary stuff......
 
OK well how does this suck!

Now this was only done under duress because I thought I would be arrested in 3 days if I still had it. I only handed it in last week - it's still in there safe!

Glock26 mucked with your mind that's happened. Why didn't you do what I told you to do: Wait til 11:59PM 30 June 2009, the very last day and as I said if there had been no court ruling the ANC would have gazetted a 3 month amensty because come Tuesday the ANC cops who wants to nail that boer would have arrested him and then Trevor would have to dole out billions in wrongfull arrest suits because the NPA refuses to prosecute.

There was a recent ruling by the courts that now forbids the SAPS from arresting and incarcerating prostitutes because they know the npa won't prosecute. THIS RULING set a precedent, which if violated will get Trevor with wrongfull arrest suites. We all know the ANC wants to nail the farmers, they will bundle us in jail first. The ANC can't do what they want inspite of the mind mockering by director Bothma and his undercover stooge (who are you really Glock26) messing with your heads.
 
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Either way, you are going to have to do something with those excess guns.

Says which court ruling ? Its like with the ECA, which criminal ruling are the lawyers interpreting when they say you can't build a network without an ECNS. Who is the judge that made a ruling in what criminal procedure, where is the case number.

Should these hunters have take the case to court to begin with? I don't think so, lets presume the Const, rule we must all hand in our guns: Now what? It would in effect be court order to the NPA to prosecute in violation of section 20 of the National Prosecuting Authority Act, No 32 of 1998, the power to institute and conduct criminal proceedings on behalf of the State (and to discontinue criminal proceedings) vests in the national prosecuting authority.

The SAPS , ANC and courts can't prosecute neither order the NPA to prosecute beause hundreds of thousands of people would still refuse to hand in their guns even if the const. rules that we must hand in our guns. Now if the NPA would have prosecuted then the const. ruling we must hand in our guns would mererly affirm the view of the NPA that we would should relicense. But the NPA views all old licenses as valid for life, so now what?

The hunters took the case to court in a CIVIL case, you can't have a civil ruling which in effect turns 900 000 people into automatic criminals. I think hte const. will realize that havoc will be created as the hundreds of thousands of people become de-facto criminals in effect doubling the criminal population. It would be preposterous.

The best course of action would have been no action, come Monday the anc would in anycase have gazetted an 3month amnest and after that another 6month for the next 50 years.

The const. court judges are all liberal who don't think we should have private guns.

Lets presume they rule that our guns are valid for life, then the people who have had their guns destroyed can sue the government for millions. The court would simply have to rule that those whos guns were destroyed have lost it and thats that - tough. This would be a practicle ruling since the ANC won't be amused if they have to fork out over R1bil to former fire-arms owners.
 
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Oh thanks very much bru. My 6.35mm is actually very good.

I fired 100 rounds, it was so hot I could hardly hold it and it did not jam once bud! Fabrique Nationale, a bit bigger than the baby browning.

And I could hide it in my shoe - almost. :D
Ladies gun :p
I've used the baby browning (same make) and it's pathetic over like 10 meters!

(/ducks)
 
I'd rather have the 17/18 rounds of a Glock which fires accurately without much kick. It's quite hard to conceal a .45 too.

I've also got a .45 - and with one up the spout and 7 "spares", I'd much rather have the stopping power of the .45 than the extra 10 or 11 rounds of 9mm (I assume that's what you meant?). I also carry (at certain times) a spare mag.

I carry my pistol *everywhere* and I've never had a concealment problem.
 
Ladies gun :p
I've used the baby browning (same make) and it's pathetic over like 10 meters!

(/ducks)

@ SackBoy I planned on meeting you in a dark ally way less than 10 meters and firing 12 rounds into you.

This one has double the spout lenth and actually pretty good at 20 meters.
Well I was pretty good at 20 meters on the rage - different story under attack & panic I guess.
 
Judge rules firearms still valid until the new law is tested in Concourt
http://www.ewn.co.za/articleprog.aspx?id=16270

Well done to the judges !!
About time the FCA is struck down and nullified

And if the constitutional court rules we must hand in our guns tomorrow? Nothing has has been nullified, the Hunters association made a grave mistake I think, they in effect took on the role of the NPA "prosecuting" themselves so to speak. Instead this whole issue would have remained in legal limbo for the next 100 years as the ANC extends deadline after dealine, amnesty after amnesty as to when you must relicense. Why would you want to have legal clarity in anycase, what practical value would it have it the NPA won't prosecute you ?

How stupid can one be to take such an issue before judges who are on record that all guns must be confiscated! Why would you want to find out what their ruling would be, rather have no ruling on the issue.

I really hope I am wrong on this, any legal types around here with a different opinion ?

Let me put it this way, under Act.96 Verizon paid Naidoo bribes to forbid all wires crossing a road for data. Now lets presume we took the case to the const. court and the judges rule that baas Verizon from the USA was correct, nobody can cut roads. But this still wouldn't mean that the NPA could have been forced to prosecute a road-cutter inspite of such a would be court ruling, because it would in effect be a violation of section 20 of the National Prosecuting Authority Act, No 32 of 1998 as amended , because the constitution entrenches the NPA independence. There is only one individual who decides to prosecute that first test care of not: Director of the NPA.

Thus the const. court would have to decide wether they want to have an intolerable situation develop where; if they rule we must all hand in our guns tomorrow, the cutoff date comes closer and closer lets say 2011 , only the last 100 000 coward whites hands in their guns but our staunch fearless blacks tells the ANC to go to hell and refuse to hand in their guns, the NPA then decides not to prosecute these last 700 000 people ? Do you see why I call the legal profession lowlife dogs and filth, the told everybody to relicense because the law says so, but the law doesn't say anything, only courts says things.

You must remember that const. court judges lives a fantasy world where they are protected by guards behind high walls and gates, many prosecutors and judges are intimidated with many prosecutors shot dead, executed or "hijacked" in their drive-ways. All a crook must do is find out where that prosecutor lives and go and kill him.

Worst case senario
1) The const. rules we must all relicense.
2) The cutoff date nears, wait till the very last moment , the very last day: Do nothing till then.
3) Wait for the NPA to make press release, if they say nothing , then you do nothing.
4) ANC huffs and puffs , bothma growls and yelps: Do nothing.
5) one day before deadline the ANC realizes the NPA won't prosecute (well actually they know that because zuma would have phoned the npa by then)
6) ANC extends deadling by 3months in amnesty via government gazette notice.

Thus by sheer willpower if we all stand together and refuse to do the anc stooges bidding , nothing will happen. But whatever you would do just remember: Wait till the very last day and then only do what you wanted to do.

It is very simple to understand
The anc can't gazette an amenesty the very day of cuttoff say 30June, they will always do such about one to two days before. Because if they don't extend and the SAPS rounds up all the TLU farmers whom they want nail and the NPA refuses to prosecute, the anc will be sued for wrongful arrest. and I say this in terms of the court ruling that forbids the SAPS from arresting prostitutes because the SAPS knows the NPA don't prosecute them anymore even though there are criminal precedents.
 
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Damn it! How could the anc allow a judge to make a fair ruling. Get motata to hear the appeal right away:d
 
I really don't want to have to repeat myself again, but Mr Wookie, you again make some serious mistakes and erroneous claims in your long winded proof-of-nothings.

You keep acting as though the ANC is subservient to the NPA. In fact, the NPA works for the ruling party, upholding the laws that the ANC drafts. Why do you keep acting like the NPA has any power at all?

Once again...just because you say something, does not make it true. You have repeated that the NPA believes that licences are valid for life. This is the crux of your argument, and is the most flawed thing of all. The NPA believes the laws that were drafted were properly done and valid. They are only too keen to prosecute contraventions of that law. Your only basis for your belief was one insignificant person in the NPA, and he doesn't have those firearms of his own, currently un(re)licenced!

There would never have been amnesties. Get that through your head. The law is clear, prosecutions were duty bound to proceed, and there were promises of no amnesty.
Now maybe there will be one. Hopefully. Thanks for the SA Jagter and other associations.

You also skip the whole issue of who paid for this new law (overseas) and who was promised a huge reduction in guns in SA, and how the World Cup decision was based on disarmament protocols. UN money paid for the new PC systems in Pta too.

The high court already ruled a long time ago that the law was constitutional and the entire law was legal. Therfore no backing down, and arrests/prosecutions are already approved. Luckily this ruling is based on their inability to cope with the huge amount of applications in time, and not the whole law.

As it is, the best we can hope for is an extension. Nothing more.

G26
 
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