I must say that what you posted there has caught my attention, what do you mean by "only 3G", do you mean the same as what I call [searchforum]"vanilla-3G"[/searchforum] [aka 3G-R'99, i.e. the 1999 spec for 3G]?
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Pitbull
Verboten
A good idea IMO, I also like the idea of a column for upload speeds that v3g suggested should also be added, perhaps the author can add more info in a new article...
Ok, we appear to be talking a similar language and referring to the same thing, so we can continue the discussion of the "3G only" point you raised, firstly, are you referring to your earlier post involving a "6110 Navigator" and "the tower serving Danville - Pretoria bordering on the road "Rod street" between Elandspoort and Danville"?
I've told you before and showed you I know the difference
You name these people and label them as confirming that all 3G BTS's has been updated
Pls ask your network guys to go check the tower serving Danville - Pretoria bordering on the road "Rod street" between Elandspoort and Danville.
I was at a friends place over the weekend using a 6110 Navigator there was nothing more than 3G..... not 1.8Mbps nor was there 3.6 Mbps
I was installing WoW for him and wanted to test his latency on different networks.
So pls, I want you to confirm for me now that the tower in that area has HSDPA
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
I've told you before and showed you I know the difference
You name these people and label them as confirming that all 3G BTS's has been updated
Pls ask your network guys to go check the tower serving Danville - Pretoria bordering on the road "Rod street" between Elandspoort and Danville.
I was at a friends place over the weekend using a 6110 Navigator there was nothing more than 3G..... not 1.8Mbps nor was there 3.6 Mbps
I was installing WoW for him and wanted to test his latency on different networks.
So pls, I want you to confirm for me now that the tower in that area has HSDPA
If it's a 3G tower, I can confirm it 'has HSDPA'.
Did you check that the address is actually in 3G coverage? Could well be that it's on the edge of (or just beyond) a 3G cell and you're picking up the lowest modulation schemes. This is just how 3G works, even MTN's
I just checked the map, and there are a number of areas between Elandspoort and Danville that are NOT covered by 3G. Can't seem to find Rod Street on the map though.
I also can't confirm (right now) if the transmission to that site is an issue or not or if there are/were any other problems in the area at the time. Transmission theft in Pretoria West is a big problem.
Could also be that there is no MTN 3G in the area, and the poor Vodacom tower is probably overloaded
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Pitbull
Verboten
If it's 3G tower, I can confirm it 'has HSDPA'.
Did you check that the address is actually in 3G coverage? Could well be that it's on the edge of (or just beyond) a 3G cell and you're picking up the lowest modulation schemes. This is just how 3G works, even MTN's
I just checked the map, and there are a number of areas between Elandspoort and Danville that are NOT covered by 3G. Can't seem to find Rod Street on the map though.
I also can't confirm (right now) if the transmission to that site is an issue or not or if there are/were any other problems in the area at the time. Transmission theft in Pretoria West is a big problem.
Could also be that there is no MTN 3G in the area, and the poor Vodacom tower is probably overloaded
The phone itself was switched to UMTS only. It could not get anything else above "3G". He got the same on MTN. Just a little note that the latency on MTN was better than Vodacom in that area. Appart from that he eventually placed an order for ADSL.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Pitbull
Verboten
Sorry but let’s just get back on topic.
So in this specific case mentioned above, he would have had the same price structure no matter which provider he chose. No back to the article, if he was reading that now, what do you think his impression would have been and what provider he would have signed up with if I didn't go and help him ?
Again proving that the article is written wrong.
He doesn't have 3.6 but would have signed up under that impression. As you mentioned some parts of that area is only covered by edge. This in itself confirms my gripe with the article.
So in this specific case mentioned above, he would have had the same price structure no matter which provider he chose. No back to the article, if he was reading that now, what do you think his impression would have been and what provider he would have signed up with if I didn't go and help him ?
Again proving that the article is written wrong.
He doesn't have 3.6 but would have signed up under that impression. As you mentioned some parts of that area is only covered by edge. This in itself confirms my gripe with the article.
Could be several things causing that, like maybe your friend's SIM Card's profile is stuck on 384, best to try http://speed.vodacom.co.za/, also maybe find out what firmware is running on that "6110 Navigator" - could be something really bizarre to do with the phone, actually I suggest that you try a different device at the same location - preferably a Huawei E220 or other modem that will work with ginggs' MDMA - that way you can see what's really going on there, and if you get stuck, just ask in MBB's Vodacom forum.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Did you not state that you could not get more than R99 on MTN as well? So, the MTN entries in the report should also be discarded as they clearly try to put MTN in a better light by claiming the MTN network is 1.8 when you have proven it's not.
As someone suggested above, the article should fall back to the lowest common denominator, guess it would be 9.6kb/s circuit switched?
But actually your whole argument shows how difficult it is to put out any kind of information for someone like myADSL, on whatever topic.
Vodacom today has around half-a-million 3G users. Not sure what the MTN number is, as they don't seem to publish any numbers, but lets assume it's around half of that.
So out of the potential 700K, or so, 3G users in South Africa, you shoot down an article because in ONE case you know about, MTN could not achieve 1.8 and Vodacom could not achieve 3.6? And while neither network performed according to their claims, the article is only biased in one direction?
Pitbull
Verboten
The speed = Rand per GB should not have been in there to begin with, that is what this complaint is about. Glad you are getting around to what I'm trying to say now
It's not about shooting down anything in relation to 1 in 700k or what ever. The article is wrong and you agree with that to an extent. You and IC is just bound by some kind of bigger force to not come out and say it......
o I know, cos it puts Vodacom in at a great spot .........
Strange that things like network stability, latency, backhaul and so forth are never part of any article written on here
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I don't know how many times I have to put it in writing, but here it is again:The speed = Rand per GB should not have been in there to begin with, that is what this complaint is about. Glad you are getting around to what I'm trying to say now
It's not about shooting down anything in relation to 1 in 700k or what ever. The article is wrong and you agree with that to an extent. You and IC is just bound by some kind of bigger force to not come out and say it......
o I know, cos it puts Vodacom in at a great spot .........
Strange that things like network stability, latency, backhaul and so forth are never part of any article written on here
- I don't work for Vodacom, and I have never worked for Vodacom, having said that, if the pay is good, I would work for just about any company.
- I did not write the article, none of the mods write news articles - even though many forumites seem to think the mods do write news article, we actually don't.
- My personal opinions - as for example expressed in my posts in this thread, are my own opinions, and do not necessarily coincide with the author of the article, I am simply commenting in this thread like you are commenting in this thread.
I didn't even notice the MTN HSDPA 1.8 issue until you raised it, perhaps if you had p.m.'ed rpm when you noticed it, rpm could have changed the article - BTW anyone can p.m. rpm - not just mods, if you have something reasonable & logical to say without being abusive, then rpm will listen to you.
Considering that the Cost column is in the article, and that very few forumites seem to understand the significance of the "Cost/Mbps/GB" column, and that the ZAR amounts shown in the Cost column are actually higher for Vodacom compared to MTN, I tend to think that people reading the article are more likely to go for MTN instead of Vodacom, which would suggest that the author must be biased in MTN's favour...but whatever as they say.
BTW, the other factors you mentioned, are taken into account in MBB's Broadband Report which has to be detailed and comprehensive and runs over several A4 pages.
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Pitbull
Verboten
hehe
Not this again. I never said you worked for them, you are a fan boy though.
As an example, have a look at the advice I give people in the WoW thread. And remember I work for MTN. I give them an unbiased straight answer. I even encourage them to try more than one to make sure they get the best speed and latency for the location they are in. I don't smear Vodacom nor do I sell MTN to them. I give them a few things to try on different networks and what ever works for them they will buy
Think about it for a second
Not this again. I never said you worked for them, you are a fan boy though.
As an example, have a look at the advice I give people in the WoW thread. And remember I work for MTN. I give them an unbiased straight answer. I even encourage them to try more than one to make sure they get the best speed and latency for the location they are in. I don't smear Vodacom nor do I sell MTN to them. I give them a few things to try on different networks and what ever works for them they will buy
Think about it for a second
You appear to be implying that I give sub-standard advice and accusing me of smearing MTN.hehe
Not this again. I never said you worked for them, you are a fan boy though.
As an example, have a look at the advice I give people in the WoW thread. And remember I work for MTN. I give them an unbiased straight answer. I even encourage them to try more than one to make sure they get the best speed and latency for the location they are in. I don't smear Vodacom nor do I sell MTN to them. I give them a few things to try on different networks and what ever works for them they will buy
Think about it for a second
I happen to know quite a lot about Vodacom's data services - I read just about every post in MBB's Vodacom forum, so it's only natural that I should know a thing or two by now.
Just like I don't offer advice on WoW bcos I don't know much about it, I also don't offer advice on MTN's data services since I don't know much about MTN's data services.
I do however advise that forumites stay far away from iBurst SA.
I have also advised that forumites try before they buy, and base their decisions on what is available in their area(s) by first eliminating what is not available in their area(s), and working from there choose what suits them best based on cost etc.
Why would I care who uses Vodacom or who uses MTN? - I'm not being paid be either network operator.
I can understand if there is some petty jealousy from MTN about how well MBB's Vodacom forum has turned out compared to MBB's MTN forum, but until v3g joined MBB there wasn't much happening in MBB's Vodacom forum, and a lot of effort from forumites and myself and v3g was put into the many posts in MBB's Vodacom forum - where many constructive debates have actually resulted in Vodacom changing things for the better and providing new services, it would have been great if the same had happened in MBB's MTN forum, but the official MTN's reps haven't stuck around for years like v3g has, maybe MTN will provide one or more official reps that do stick around for years, and whatever petty jealousy there is can be put aside.
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vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
On the measurement of cost/speed/bundle.
(And lets try and keep emotions or networks out of this discussion for a minute It's about how to measure stuff.)
Comparing data costs give a relative value for each service. While this is fine when you buy the service the first time, most users will expect to be able to use their data at the best possible speed.
Say you buy a 1GB bundle per month. In theory, you'd be happy with a download speed of ~3kb/s as this will be enough to use your bundle in the month and that's all you paid for, 1GB of data.
But obviously no-one is going to be happy with this, downloading at 3Kb/s. Although you only have a 1GB bundle, you want to download at as high a speed as possible, whenever you choose to do so. If you can download the whole bundle in minutes, it's your choice.
As an example, say you have two services where a 1GB bundle costs R100 but the one has double the download speed of the other.
Which one provides the better value for money?
This is measured by cost/speed/bundle and such a measurement is needed when you try and normalise different offerings to be compared in the same table.
Thus the author created 2 columns. One is the outright cost and does not take speed into account and here a service like iBurst or Cell-C will do well.
But if you bring speed into it, the higher speed networks like 4Mb/s ADSL will do better.
What's missing form the normalised value is an indicator of up-link speed. Again, all else being equal, how do you differentiate (in a single number) the two services if only the up-link speed is different?
Something like cost/downlink/uplink/bundle now should be calculated.
Obviously one can now bring issues like latency, reliability, coverage, etc. into it as well, but because they're typically not stated, tend not to be used.
(And lets try and keep emotions or networks out of this discussion for a minute
It's about how to measure stuff.)Comparing data costs give a relative value for each service. While this is fine when you buy the service the first time, most users will expect to be able to use their data at the best possible speed.
Say you buy a 1GB bundle per month. In theory, you'd be happy with a download speed of ~3kb/s as this will be enough to use your bundle in the month and that's all you paid for, 1GB of data.
But obviously no-one is going to be happy with this, downloading at 3Kb/s. Although you only have a 1GB bundle, you want to download at as high a speed as possible, whenever you choose to do so. If you can download the whole bundle in minutes, it's your choice.
As an example, say you have two services where a 1GB bundle costs R100 but the one has double the download speed of the other.
Which one provides the better value for money?
This is measured by cost/speed/bundle and such a measurement is needed when you try and normalise different offerings to be compared in the same table.
Thus the author created 2 columns. One is the outright cost and does not take speed into account and here a service like iBurst or Cell-C will do well.
But if you bring speed into it, the higher speed networks like 4Mb/s ADSL will do better.
What's missing form the normalised value is an indicator of up-link speed. Again, all else being equal, how do you differentiate (in a single number) the two services if only the up-link speed is different?
Something like cost/downlink/uplink/bundle now should be calculated.
Obviously one can now bring issues like latency, reliability, coverage, etc. into it as well, but because they're typically not stated, tend not to be used.
Yes they do, would be great if our government, adopted the same attitude towards internet access in the interests of developing our nation, as they do with healthcare pricing structures.
http://www.fin24.com/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-1786_2357363
IMO two separate columns - one for Downlink Cost/Mbps/GB and another for Uplink Cost/Mbps/GB, and then possibly a third column which has the average of the values in the rows for those 2 previous columns...
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Too true, I often get the impression that one thing forumites could agree on is that they hardly ever agree on anything, but that does make for some very interesting debatesThat's why these tables can get so complex. But then, half the posts would complain the numbers are too difficult to read and what is needed is a single figure.
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This should get you started: http://www.google.co.za/search?q=%2Bsite%3Amybroadband.co.za%2Fvb%2F+%2Brpm+%2Battachment+%2B%22Broadband+Report%22
Prometheus
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
- Messages
- 4,252
- Reaction score
- 3
Yes, please do. I can see it is still the same status quo as when I left so it's bye-bye again and no sig change.
As for the impartiality of the mods it's easily laid to rest by the fact that Vodacom critical posts are still disappearring and there's no accountability for it so there is still no sign of the claimed impartiality of the "forum". Please just give up this pretense of open discussion and rename it to what it is - a commercial venture.