Broadband Prices: what else needs to be achieved?

[Biscuit1018]

What investment?
Didn't the taxpayer pay for all the infrastructure and they simply got it for free?

Didn't the taxpayer pay for all the infrastructure - Yes up to the privatisation
and they simply got it for free? - No the investors paid the Government. So the tax payers got their money back at a profit or loss whatever

 

[Saman]

That has already happened. ICASA required this of Telkom a few years back and the structures are already in place within Telkom. The ISP's deal with Telkom on basically the same wholesale basis as Telkom retail.

But how will that benefit the consumer in lowering pricing seeing as Telkom would still retain their monopoly in this scenario ?

In my opinion the best solution is LLU-lite (aka BitStream) at competitive prices. This allows a fairly substantial number of providers to bring a variety of services to customer - including Internet access, IPTV, etc - at a far more reasonable level of investment.

Tell us more about this LLU-lite thing please...

 

[Lightscribe]

Google is your friend...

To 2009, then, and the advent of Carrier Pre-Select (CPS), proposed by the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA), widely seen as a precursor to LLU. CPS has been used by a large number of countries to kick-start the free flowing competition that should be the consequence of LLU, allowing smaller telcos to compete with the incumbents. The idea behind it is that it’s a mini version of unbundling in that it allows customers to choose their service provider and make calls over another providers’ network, usually accessing this using a prefix. Eventually, moves are made to implement automatic pre-select; the fact that, in South Africa, this second phase at time of writing would exclude cellphone users (who are believed to account for around 90% of calls made in the country) has raised some concerns.

With CPS, there’s no physical change to the current infrastructural set up, the carrier simply pays an interconnection fee to the network provider where the call is terminated – a sort of LLU “lite”, offering a virtual solution to the LLU problem and paving the way for the latter’s roll-out. The main advantage to consumers is that it usually creates a price war of sorts, meaning they can shop around for the best value. Providers, meanwhile, rather than looking to invest in rolling out their own physical infrastructure, usually look to services as their key differentiator from the competition, leaving end-users in an attractive position.

...

The Local Loop Unbundling Committee (LLC) indicates that a hybrid comprising of three unbundling models is likely to be how the South African version of LLU looks. According to the LLC, these models are:

• Full unbundling: Also known as “raw copper access” this is where the competitor leases the line from the incumbent and has full control over the copper pairs, allowing them to offer all available services. Pricing is regulated but the incumbent retains ownership of the loop and responsibility for maintaining it.
• Line sharing/shared access: A form of full unbundling, this allows users to take voice and data services from two different suppliers. The incumbent retains control over the copper pair while allowing a competitor to lease part of the spectrum to offer services over the non-voice part of the loop. This model allows users to shop around for their preferred broadband provider without having to install another line. This method is prone to “crosstalk” and slower speeds.
• Bit stream: Wholesale access that a company, such as an ISP, to buy xDSL products from the incumbent, which retains control over the subscriber’s line and can therefore decide which services the competition can offer. As such, this version of LLU seriously limits the level of genuine competition and is widely viewed as a disincentive to rolling out improved technologies on the part of the incumbent. The service is often appealing to ISPs but not to organisations seeking to compete fully with the incumbent telco. For this reason, some countries do not consider bit stream to be part of the LLU process.

http://www.itwebinformatica.co.za/i...=74:converging-communications-2009&Itemid=123

 

[newblackcity]

LLU is the Way!!! Faster, cheaper.

 

[Sting]

What else needs to be achieved? Top 3 list:

1. LLU

2. LLU

3. LLU

 

[Gordon_R]

According to this article on MyBB on 23 March, the local telcos aren't even ready to implement number portability, so LLU seems very far in the future IMO!
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/telecoms/11889.html

 

[Sting]

According to this article on MyBB on 23 March, the local telcos aren't even ready to implement number portability, so LLU seems very far in the future IMO!
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/telecoms/11889.html

Agreed, but if you enforce a tighter timeline for implementation of LLU, it will force all parties to get their arses in gear w.r.t. all the relevant steps required to be sorted out prior to LLU.

Right now they delay the smaller processes knowing that it will extend the LLU date!

 

[Telegamer]

And we thought that Neotel would bring about the broadband revolution, what a joke!! They still haven't done anything about their data pricing & is still the same since they launched.

Neotel is an absolute joke.....

 

[r00igev@@r]

Ironic that all 6 points required the co-operation of Telkom. This isn’t going to happen voluntarily unless the ISPs work together and take on Telkom on the issues that need to be resolved - might even require legal intervention. Rudi Jansen could be seen as one of the pioneers of the internet revolution in SA - come on, don't stop now!

Here's looking to the nominated 'Entrepreneur of the Year' to make the big next move :erm:

Open peering can be done without Telkom. Ironic that the rest of the big players behave just like Telkom.

 

[Turtle]

And we thought that Neotel would bring about the broadband revolution, what a joke!! They still haven't done anything about their data pricing & is still the same since they launched.

Who is this "we" you speak of, I said from the start I thought Neotel was going to be crap. It was obvious and predictable.

 

[Saman]

Google is your friend...

Thanks for the ref

Well, at this stage it seems it's up to the authorities to push for compliance. Meanwhile, still no announcement from Telkom.

 

[afrodeity]

Join the debate with the people who started it - ZA-FREE on IRC freenode channel #za-free

 

[salaciouswun]

Just points 1 & 2 would make my year!



I'm in the same boat - dreading the long call to Telkom trying to explain to cancel my data portion and not the whole DO3 package.

I just did the same thing on my Webafrica account (had an ADSL complete package) ... Except it took just one email and a few hours wait to sort out

 

[ambo]

But how will that benefit the consumer in lowering pricing seeing as Telkom would still retain their monopoly in this scenario ?

The local loop will always be a monopoly. It doesn't really matter if that monopoly is Telkom or some other entity - it still remains a monopoly. The trick is regulating the price effectively regardless of the entity that owns the infrastructure.

Competition on the local loop is like expecting competition on the pipe that brings water to your house

Tell us more about this LLU-lite thing please...

LLU-lite is a little expression that I coined for IPstream/BitStream. For all intents and purposes ISPs will be able to achieve everything that they want out of LLU by using BitStream. The additional benefits of direct electrical access to the copper pair are minimal and this requires 100 or 1000 times more investment to achieve this.

 

[stm101]

There are three types of unbundling that Telkom could do. This is called "Bit Stream Access" universally around the world (look it up on wikipedia)

This type of access does not entail any third party access to the copper pair in the local loop. Local Loop unbundling (LLU) has it's own nightmare of who is responsible for the copper, the exchange equipment, interference on the line (it may be fine for telephone and FAX but not for DSL). There are always problems with LLU and problems on the copper wire.

The elegance solution (Bit Stream Access) is to have handover points thus can be at various levels within Telkom

1. Handover at DSLAM

Telkom provides a link using its ATM or IP network, to carry competitors' (ISP) traffic from the DSLAM to the ISP's point of presence in the local city. The ISP would have quite a few links to various exchanges (DSLAM's). The ISP then does national and international transit and peering. This would be applicable to large ISP's that have many customers connecting to an exchange.


2. Handover at local ESR
Telkom provides a link using its ATM or IP network, to carry competitors' (ISP) traffic from the various ESR's to the ISP's point of presence in the local city. The ISP then does national and international transit and peering. This would be applicable to regional/city ISP's and large ISP's that have many customers in a city.


3. Handover at national ESR (current IPC)


The main elements defining Bit Stream Access are the following:
High speed access link to the ISP (end user part) provided by the Telkom and transmission capacity for broadband data in both direction enabling new entrants to offer their own, value-added services to end users;
New entrants have the possibility to differentiate their services by altering technical characteristics and/or the use of their own network;

Thus, Bit Stream Access is a wholesale product consisting of the access (typically ADSL) and “backhaul” services of the (data) backbone network (ATM, IP backbone).

 

[Keeper]

Neotel has only been a waste of time and money - Afrihost and Mweb are the Heroes who are saving us in South Africa!