Building an ADSL Network

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license

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Hey Guys,

I'm trying to get my head around the dynamics of building your own ADSL network.

As far as I understand, you need an IPConnect, which is a service offered on top of an ATM or MegaLine+ service from telkom, normally 34mbps to 155mbps (I think with GigE you can get up to 600mbps).

Obviously you'd either need to cater for optical (fibre) or ethernet termination into your edge router.

But from that point, what is required and barrier to entry on an ADSL network.

So you have an IPConnect, and an ATM link from telkom onto a Cisco 3725 Router.

The next step I would imagine is an IP block from AfriNIC - anyone know the costs involved with this?

After which, peering links would be a great idea - SAIX, MTN, IS and DP, and obviously BGP throughout the networks.

As far as I'm aware, with an IPConnect, telkom still terminate your PPPoE sessions, so you don't need any NAS equipment - am I correct in this (thats what my mate at Verizon tells me anyway).

Obviously some fancy servers, such as SMTP, DNS, Proxy will be required.

And finally, a kick ass firewall that will allow you to manage services such as SHAPED and UNSHAPED traffic, as well as LOCAL - only and so forth.

As far as I'm concerned, the only expenses is your Cisco 3725 with OC3 interfaces for the Telkom IPConnect and Peering links with MTN, IS, SAIX and DP.

Anyone care to comment - maybe even speak from experience?

Thanks
 
I really like your drive mate.. and i think alot can come from this.

Sorry I cant answer any of your questions as I really have no idea.
 
Doubt a 3725 would do the trick... A 6500 or 7200 would be much better.

Next step would be to get a Radius Server online to handle authentication, and IP Addresses from AfriNIC to dish out to your clients. You would also require a ASN Number from AfriNIC to use for BGP Peering. Pricing is available somewhere at http://www.afrinic.org

You would also require uplink bandwidth. If your IPC to Telkom for DSL traffic is 600mb (example), you would also need close to 600mb/s of Internet bandwidth, from SAIX, NeoTel, IS, take your pick to actually give Internet access to your subscribers.
 
Sounds nice... but the only problem is you are not allowed to do it. You need a license from ICASA to be able to build your own network. Neotel only paid R100 million for theirs... maybe you can get yours a bit cheaper? :D
 
Savage,

I agree a 6500 would be a better choice ;-)

So as for that, there is not much else needed - barring a datacenter to host in.

The benefit is, you own the transport network, so you're in control of your ADSL users, which hopefully means you can deliver a better service to them, as well as value-added services which the likes of other providers don't want to offer.

Radius Server and maybe an L2TP server for offering uncapped and static IP addresses.

The next question is, who would you get to contract out and help build your network, cause it won't be a simple job ;-)
 
Garyvdh said:
Sounds nice... but the only problem is you are not allowed to do it. You need a license from ICASA to be able to build your own network. Neotel only paid R100 million for theirs... maybe you can get yours a bit cheaper? :D
Click to expand...

Technically, you only need an iECS license as you're not laying your own physical infrastructure. Although an iECNS license would really help too ;-)
 
license said:
Technically, you only need an iECS license as you're not laying your own physical infrastructure. Although an iECNS license would really help too ;-)
Click to expand...

How much +/- does a iECS and iECNS license go for?
 
license said:
Savage,

I agree a 6500 would be a better choice ;-)

So as for that, there is not much else needed - barring a datacenter to host in.

The benefit is, you own the transport network, so you're in control of your ADSL users, which hopefully means you can deliver a better service to them, as well as value-added services which the likes of other providers don't want to offer.

Radius Server and maybe an L2TP server for offering uncapped and static IP addresses.

The next question is, who would you get to contract out and help build your network, cause it won't be a simple job ;-)
Click to expand...

Until local loop unbundling happens I don't really see the point of setting up your own network. Telkom is always going to control the PPPOE connection to your client's premises, so you will always be at the mercy of their backhaul links to their exchanges.

Until you can put own DSLAM into a Telkom exchange, why bother spending all that money?
 
license said:
L2TP server for offering uncapped and static IP addresses.
Click to expand...

IP Addressing and the like are handled by jourself on the IPC link, not by Telkom. Telkom essentially handles layer 2, you handle layer 3**. As to how exactly layer 2 is passed through IPC down to your equipment by Telkom, I'm not sure :confused:

** As far as I know - .nfo may not be 100% accurate, Telkom dudes would know.
 
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Well DSLAMS cost loads of money, and so does the fibre links between your DSLAMS and your core concentrators.

And who knows when local-loop un-bundling will happen - maybe 2012, maybe 2020?

And is it really that expensive to run an ADSL network. Considering your traffic will probably cost around the R12 mark per GB, and with the right contention ratios, you could really offer a cheap service at the cost of sharing with a few more people than expected.

clearly webafrica seem to think building their own network is feasible, so did IS and Datapro.

And to be honest, the telkom ATM backbone is actually very stable, considering telkoms move to IP-based interconnects which need carrier-grade uptime.
 
license said:
Well DSLAMS cost loads of money, and so does the fibre links between your DSLAMS and your core concentrators.

And who knows when local-loop un-bundling will happen - maybe 2012, maybe 2020?

And is it really that expensive to run an ADSL network. Considering your traffic will probably cost around the R12 mark per GB, and with the right contention ratios, you could really offer a cheap service at the cost of sharing with a few more people than expected.

clearly webafrica seem to think building their own network is feasible, so did IS and Datapro.

And to be honest, the telkom ATM backbone is actually very stable, considering telkoms move to IP-based interconnects which need carrier-grade uptime.
Click to expand...

Interesting!
Guys, who runs and owns their own networks in SA? Telkom, Neotel, MTN, Vodacom, IS and now(ish) Web Africa but who else? - Just interested to know..
 
Can you not just setup the peering to other providers at Jinx?
 
Amida said:
Can you not just setup the peering to other providers at Jinx?
Click to expand...

Does JINX allow direct peering?

I'd imagine you'd still need a peering agreement between the networks, or as in the VoIP world, have a single transit partner that will peer on behalf of you for a few cents per MB.
 
savage said:
IP Addressing and the like are handled by jourself on the IPC link, not by Telkom. Telkom essentially handles layer 2, you handle layer 3**. As to how exactly layer 2 is passed through IPC down to your equipment by Telkom, I'm not sure :confused:

** As far as I know - .nfo may not be 100% accurate, Telkom dudes would know.
Click to expand...

You are assigned a VC number (as far as I know) (or a range of VC's based on your PVC's from telkom), which is then setup on the Telkom Concentrators (the PPPOE termination kit). The NAS knows once it receives an Access-Accept packet from your radius server, your IP allocation is then switch via VC to your C4 or termination kit on the ATM side.

I might be slightly off this however.
 
how can we take a double poster seriously?

just my opinion, but there's no-way you can undercut the mighty 'isp for life' and offer more for less unless you operate at a loss. then the question arises, how long can you keep chucking money in the wind and still offer superior service?
 
Edit: Removed quote to protect the egits.

Reading this thread leaves me with the impression that people are very confused.
 
Luf said:
Interesting!
Guys, who runs and owns their own networks in SA? Telkom, Neotel, MTN, Vodacom, IS and now(ish) Web Africa but who else? - Just interested to know..
Click to expand...

XDSL for the last 3 years.

Cybersmart and SAOL for sometime aswell.
 
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