chiskop
Executive Member
Its a historical list, so yes everyone up to Mokaba is dead or retired.
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Buthelezi slams affirmative action
- Thread starter fergus
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dlk001
Executive Member
I think you are making fair points there Bobby. Back to my point. There's a lot of hope in the country when you look at todays' youth. The future leadership (political/business) generation who are the current youth are very different to the current leadership (business/political) generation.
I'm saying they are different in a positive way that makes me to have hope for the future of this country. Come to think of it, that is the intention of the change in 1994.
The ANCYL has become the Mbalula YL. It wont survive like that. Within the ANCYL itself, there are tensions as to the direction of the movement.
There's always hope - it's the number of lifetimes it takes to achieve that's the issue.
I agree, the ANCYL is directionally flawed right now, but so is the ANC - the capitalistic friendly environment it now operates inside is not entirely well received by everyone in the ANC as well as its alliances. Interesting times ahead.
I agree, the ANCYL is directionally flawed right now, but so is the ANC - the capitalistic friendly environment it now operates inside is not entirely well received by everyone in the ANC as well as its alliances. Interesting times ahead.
Random racism
Xenophobic? That's a big word; you seem familiar with the concept?
This is why I've never understood AA or BEE. 45 million people, a captive market: a whole culture ripe for products, advertising, services (but I feel marginalised.) And let's rather interfere in companies than let market forces work (by lower prices, more competition, a deregulated market.) But no, now government must set up companies, or BEE must be in place, or any one of a hundred other reasons. And here we sit, no power, most expensive broadband in the world, kids under trees, highest death rate due to crime, aids, etc, etc, but no (I feel marginalised.) Fck.
(Although I wouldn't say it isn't working rather its working is causing a lot of resentment in the country and perhaps less investment than there would have been.)
Policy = Standard Capitalist Ethos
Government can't create jobs; only the conditions for job creation (less paperwork, less interference.)
Doesn't quite hold true in this country (which has always been communist, even under the nats.) IOW infrastructure programs. Build a road to Cairo if that is what its going to take. And train the carpenters and electricians, and engineers through massive budgets (instead of spending it on ships, submarines, aircraft which are not ideally suited to our purpose anyway.) Plus all the other wasted money, the embezzled money, the lost money. But no this doesn't happen because of the concentration on BEE and the implementation of AA when there are thousands of other grassroots jobs which just haven't been enabled due to this governments concentration on its navel instead of doing something.
'Failed housing targets an ANC legacy' Feb 01 07
By Anél Powell
Cape Town has fallen short of its housing targets and the blame lies with the previous ANC administration, which "stripped" the city of skilled workers, mayor Helen Zille said yesterday.
"Our administration simply does not have enough project managers, engineers and technicians, and this has been worsened by the purging of nearly 100 experienced staff members in 2005," Zille told Wednesday's full council meeting.
"This is the legacy that was left by the ANC."
Everybody gets that reaction on Clifton. You are either a regular or an outsider.
I hear Mbeki's (and Bageloos) comments on how much has been done:
12 million people on grants
1300 clinics built (+ some other stats)
But all I have to do is drive down the road and see that above stats bear little relation to reality.
I have noticed more 'disenfranschised' people using the atm and this is a good thing but plainly if the government wasn't so intent on their own enrichment and their own control of what should be a free market (with all that implies) then we would be so much further. Instead it seems they prefer the brain drain and all the deaths in the country.
Communist is as communist does. What's changed?
Where does this disinformation come from? Do people so easily forget Van Zyl Slabber, or Helen Suzman or a dozen other stalwarts including such organisations as the Black Sash?
Xenophobic? That's a big word; you seem familiar with the concept?
No the intention of the change in 94 was to have a country free of legislated discrimination. An SA free for all south africans. How then do we have legislated discrimination??!
How do you feel marginalised in a country where you are the majority, run the government, and have all the power? Perhaps this perception is your own illusion?Its true what you are saying. I often get frustrated myself when I feel marginilized. If there's one thing people learned from my res, at tertiary during 1992-1997, its the difficulty in addressing the needs of 415 students from diverse races in a changing political climate.
That's why I have so much hope in the next generation of leaders!
This is why I've never understood AA or BEE. 45 million people, a captive market: a whole culture ripe for products, advertising, services (but I feel marginalised.) And let's rather interfere in companies than let market forces work (by lower prices, more competition, a deregulated market.) But no, now government must set up companies, or BEE must be in place, or any one of a hundred other reasons. And here we sit, no power, most expensive broadband in the world, kids under trees, highest death rate due to crime, aids, etc, etc, but no (I feel marginalised.) Fck.
This is just so wrong: 3 years into 'transformation' but little evidence? Please. AA and BEE soon killed any euphoria in this country (thanks to Mbeki.) Oh but no, we've had 10 years since 1997. (Now which policy would be the better one?)
(Although I wouldn't say it isn't working rather its working is causing a lot of resentment in the country and perhaps less investment than there would have been.)
Policy = Standard Capitalist Ethos
Government can't create jobs; only the conditions for job creation (less paperwork, less interference.)
Doesn't quite hold true in this country (which has always been communist, even under the nats.) IOW infrastructure programs. Build a road to Cairo if that is what its going to take. And train the carpenters and electricians, and engineers through massive budgets (instead of spending it on ships, submarines, aircraft which are not ideally suited to our purpose anyway.) Plus all the other wasted money, the embezzled money, the lost money. But no this doesn't happen because of the concentration on BEE and the implementation of AA when there are thousands of other grassroots jobs which just haven't been enabled due to this governments concentration on its navel instead of doing something.
'Failed housing targets an ANC legacy' Feb 01 07
By Anél Powell
Cape Town has fallen short of its housing targets and the blame lies with the previous ANC administration, which "stripped" the city of skilled workers, mayor Helen Zille said yesterday.
"Our administration simply does not have enough project managers, engineers and technicians, and this has been worsened by the purging of nearly 100 experienced staff members in 2005," Zille told Wednesday's full council meeting.
"This is the legacy that was left by the ANC."
Not sure about the 'model' or what your point is? Isn't CT the fashion base of the country; an industry inherently non-racist?
Everybody gets that reaction on Clifton. You are either a regular or an outsider.
The government looks into my bank account every year: SOP if you're a taxpayer, why should anybody else be any different?Cool, I'm glad we agree on thisThe difficulty of looking into people's backgrounds based on financial criteria is probably very off-putting to gov and possibly impractical to implement. In any event though, IMO, AA in this form would be much more acceptable.
I hear Mbeki's (and Bageloos) comments on how much has been done:
12 million people on grants
1300 clinics built (+ some other stats)
But all I have to do is drive down the road and see that above stats bear little relation to reality.
I have noticed more 'disenfranschised' people using the atm and this is a good thing but plainly if the government wasn't so intent on their own enrichment and their own control of what should be a free market (with all that implies) then we would be so much further. Instead it seems they prefer the brain drain and all the deaths in the country.
Communist is as communist does. What's changed?
From the Bill of Rights in our "wonderful" constitution:
http://www.polity.org.za/html/govdocs/constitution/saconst02.html?rebookmark=1
Equality
9. (1) Everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law.
(2) Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken.
(3) The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.
(4) No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.
(5) Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.
fair discrimination ? lol, who decides what is "fair" ? the ANC government
AA is just reverse apartheid
what is the point of appointing someone in a post that he has no qualification for just because he is black. yes he will get a good salary (that he does not deserve) but the business he works for will suffer.
The point of appointing someone in a post is for him to do the job, you need the BEST guy for the job, not the blackest guy. If the best guy is black, there's no problem.
Business is not a chartiy.
The only other place in history with such employment laws was Nazi Germany...where the Jews were fired from all government jobs and the jobs given the unemployed Germans.
What happens to a person with a black mother and a white father ? as what race is he classified ? By what LAWS is he classified ? "The Population Registration Act" was dissolved in 1991
So actually the government has no legal system for classifying a person as "African" or white
I am the 11th generation, my forefather arrived in Africa with the French Hugenots in 1687, thats 320 years, I think that makes me an African.
bleh. ek raak nou net die m**r in, ek moet seker werk...
http://www.polity.org.za/html/govdocs/constitution/saconst02.html?rebookmark=1
Equality
9. (1) Everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law.
(2) Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken.
(3) The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.
(4) No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.
(5) Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair.
fair discrimination ? lol, who decides what is "fair" ? the ANC government
AA is just reverse apartheid
what is the point of appointing someone in a post that he has no qualification for just because he is black. yes he will get a good salary (that he does not deserve) but the business he works for will suffer.
The point of appointing someone in a post is for him to do the job, you need the BEST guy for the job, not the blackest guy. If the best guy is black, there's no problem.
Business is not a chartiy.
The only other place in history with such employment laws was Nazi Germany...where the Jews were fired from all government jobs and the jobs given the unemployed Germans.
What happens to a person with a black mother and a white father ? as what race is he classified ? By what LAWS is he classified ? "The Population Registration Act" was dissolved in 1991
So actually the government has no legal system for classifying a person as "African" or white
I am the 11th generation, my forefather arrived in Africa with the French Hugenots in 1687, thats 320 years, I think that makes me an African.
bleh. ek raak nou net die m**r in, ek moet seker werk...
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Freshy-ZN
Executive Member
Ja Protzkrog, its completely riduculous that para 5 can overrule para 3 whenever the ANC decides something is fair/
I'm glad Buthelezi recognises the racism of affirmative action. I have no problem working with a black guy that can do his job well, thats the way it should be, logically. If you want to make money and be successfull in your business - hire the best guy for the job...oh ja, but regular logic and ANC logic is to total different things.
Just think how "mean" and world class this country could be if we operated on this principle, logically. We've got the most gold reserves in the world, we got diamonds, fertile soil, rich seas, chrome, uranium, iron etc. As well as the best infrastructure in Africa. https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sf.html
but ja, the ANC clearly does not want to use all that for the benefit of all South Africans, especially the poor, that vote for them. Rather the top people want to enrich themselves from the tax payers pocket and hide behind their R90 million walls and blame all the problems on apartheid...
Just think how "mean" and world class this country could be if we operated on this principle, logically. We've got the most gold reserves in the world, we got diamonds, fertile soil, rich seas, chrome, uranium, iron etc. As well as the best infrastructure in Africa. https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sf.html
but ja, the ANC clearly does not want to use all that for the benefit of all South Africans, especially the poor, that vote for them. Rather the top people want to enrich themselves from the tax payers pocket and hide behind their R90 million walls and blame all the problems on apartheid...