Buthelezi slams affirmative action

ryan411 said:
There is still resentment to create so I have to disagree with you there.

Anyone entering tertiary education or looking for that first job now is going to be bombarded by government policies about how the blacker you are the better. If you aren't an 'African' male or female, then chances are u will face legislated discrimination.


I'm a 3rd generation South African citizen, and of Chinese ethnicity. I think it was Bageloo that said I am supposed to choose where I fit in on the above score card rating. Since I don't feature in the above list, the most appropriate option for me is 'African Male', since I was born on this continent.

Anyone have a problem with that...?
Click to expand...

maybe I have a problem with the word create, before you create something surely it must not exist, so if resentment already exists? How do you create it?

what is this legislated discrimination you write about ?


those who complain about 'discrimination' seem to be silent that they are "advantaged" by superior education (never forget being born in more stable environment - have u people thought about the differences between growing up in a surbub compared to a township ) they received compared to their disadvantages compatriots.

I'm also no fan of how AA is being implemented but I hardly hear them suggesting any altenatives on to how to level the playing field. Their main interest is how bad the current system is, it makes me wonder if they are not telling me if they rather have the apartheid system ? ie exclude the disadvantaged ones from the system?

Chinese ethnicity ??? So have you ever been to china? Maybe you can help me clarify some perceptions I have about china ?
 
Bageloo said:
Originally Posted by ryan411
Hmm... I don't know how viable an idea like this is, but they could have provided tax incentives for businesses for each 'black' employee.
Click to expand...
the incentive is obviusly government contracts/tenders.
Click to expand...
IMO, the problem here is that u exclude an entire company from tendering based on make or break qualifications. Your company could be 33% black owned and then loses out on a tender? What about the black partner that has had a stake in the company for 30 years and is now screwed over by the current government. Screwed over by the former gov also because he/she could not start his/her own business without 51% white partnership in the past? I speak from experience. This is what happened to my father's business. He's now been forced into early retirement. Business got worse and worse, and at 63 years of age it wasn't an option to start over. Plus, after you've survived a robbery (alone) and surrounded by by 5 armed criminals, you count your lucky stars to still be alive...

Now I look forward to subsidising his retirement as well as being discriminated against by this government.
Bageloo said:
Originally Posted by ryan411
What to do about companies with an unofficial policy of keeping non-whites out? I don't know... it's a tough one...
Click to expand...
I'm glad someone in the forum is awake to the fact that such scenarios exist. It's only human nature.
Click to expand...
My girlfriend's sister has gotten the worst of it. Not considered by companies in her current job hunt because she is not considered black, but little chance of making it in a white (afrikaans) dominated company in Pretoria[*], because she is not white...

[*] I may be generalising here, but I hear that if u r not white and afrikaans, u struggle in such companies in Pretoria
 
Bageloo said:
I think that's a very interesting question you raised. I also feel that is the major flaw with AA impelmentation. It would be fairer if the background was considered over and above race. Rich black kids benefit more than their poor counterparts. Naturally, employers prefer blacks that can speak with that model C english accent. I have a friend who works as a recruitment agent. He told me that he once had a brilliant candidate from Limpopo turned down because of a heavy accent.

No black kid schooling in the township can master the "twang". Only kids that attend schools in the suburbs and private schools are able to talk like that. Those are kids from wealthy black families.
Click to expand...

hehheheheh heavy accent, i suppose it shows you can go far when u fake it !!!
 
Bageloo said:
I think that's a very interesting question you raised. I also feel that is the major flaw with AA impelmentation. It would be fairer if the background was considered over and above race. Rich black kids benefit more than their poor counterparts.
Click to expand...
What has this got to do with race? All rich kids benefit more that their poor counterparts. No racism required.
 
iMonga said:
maybe I have a problem with the word create, before you create something surely it must not exist, so if resentment already exists? How do you create it?
Click to expand...
Just because there might be resentment amongst the populace, generally speaking, it does not mean u cannot still create that resentment in an individual who was free from such resentment (up to that point).

iMonga said:
what is this legislated discrimination you write about ?
Click to expand...
Err... the mere fact that there is a BEE score card that gives preference to 'African' males over white or coloured males, for example.

iMonga said:
those who complain about 'discrimination' seem to be silent that they are "advantaged" by superior education (never forget being born in more stable environment - have u people thought about the differences between growing up in a surbub compared to a township ) they received compared to their disadvantages compatriots.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on this.

iMonga said:
I'm also no fan of how AA is being implemented but I hardly hear them suggesting any altenatives on to how to level the playing field. Their main interest is how bad the current system is, it makes me wonder if they are not telling me if they rather have the apartheid system ? ie exclude the disadvantaged ones from the system?
Click to expand...
True. What we need is constructive criticism. I think that gets stifled though, when government does not listen to its citizens, especially the white ones! Who is most representative of white interests? The DA and Tony Leon; who might as well be Satan himself in the eyes of the ANC. I do beleive though (perhaps naively) that the DA fight for what is good for all the people of SA, not just whites.

iMonga said:
Chinese ethnicity ??? So have you ever been to china? Maybe you can help me clarify some perceptions I have about china ?
Click to expand...
I've been to China (on a 3 week tour), but SA is my home. China is a big place and hence the people in the north are very differnt to the people in the south. China was as alien to me as a Xhosa person might find Kenya, for example. Yes, there are elements I could identify with, but the place is not my home.
 
Bageloo said:
Naturally, employers prefer blacks that can speak with that model C english accent. I have a friend who works as a recruitment agent. He told me that he once had a brilliant candidate from Limpopo turned down because of a heavy accent.

No black kid schooling in the township can master the "twang". Only kids that attend schools in the suburbs and private schools are able to talk like that. Those are kids from wealthy black families.
Click to expand...

My boss prefered blacks that were "nice" people. When the "nice" people complained about lack of career development opportunities and tokenism, he would tell them they are too 'ambitious'. When the 'nice' person decides to leave the job, he would smear rumors that they were incompetent.

My boss wasn't comfortable with blacks that were skilled for the job because they were highly marketable.
 
mhhhh Ryan nice to know we have folks with no resentment, at least christianity did its job hehe. At the moment black people have an inherent distrust of white people and i suppose for progress sake there is wish for the distrust can go away quicker. Take Tony Leon's case, before 94 I don't recall the DP fighting for the cause of black people so it's kind of hard to think a chihuahuha like Leon all of a sudden has a black person's and white person's interest at heart.


How welcoming is China to foreigners Ryan, the perception I get is that they are quite a xenophobic society?
 
Last edited:
marine1 said:
Ah just asking as ?I am sure you said you were Jewish too and I do not think there are many black Jews in South africa.
Click to expand...

What is your point?



Cyndy Lauper

"But I see your true colors, Shining through, So don't be afraid to let them show,
Your true colors, True colors are beautiful"
 
Bageloo said:
I think that's a very interesting question you raised. I also feel that is the major flaw with AA impelmentation. It would be fairer if the background was considered over and above race.
Click to expand...
Cool, I'm glad we agree on this :)

Bageloo said:
Rich black kids benefit more than their poor counterparts. Naturally, employers prefer blacks that can speak with that model C english accent. I have a friend who works as a recruitment agent. He told me that he once had a brilliant candidate from Limpopo turned down because of a heavy accent.

No black kid schooling in the township can master the "twang". Only kids that attend schools in the suburbs and private schools are able to talk like that. Those are kids from wealthy black families.
Click to expand...
Yeah. You could say that a black butcher in the township who got rich, was in a better position because of apartheid because he had a captive market as his customer base. He can afford to send his kid to private school, and come democracy 1994, the kid is on track to become the best of the best.

In this situation, such a person is not a PDI, relatively speaking IMO.

The difficulty of looking into people's backgrounds based on financial criteria is probably very off-putting to gov and possibly impractical to implement. In any event though, IMO, AA in this form would be much more acceptable.
 
Bageloo said:
No black kid schooling in the township can master the "twang". Only kids that attend schools in the suburbs and private schools are able to talk like that. Those are kids from wealthy black families.
Click to expand...

Its an interesting point Bageloo. During my engineering Studies at UCT, students from the townships persevered, made it despite all the political obstacles. The ones with the 'twang" had a tendency to disappear in mid year.:D
 
iMonga said:
who are the presently disadvantaged citizens???
Click to expand...

The "disadvantaged" are the ones suffering because they, their parents, grand parents and so on suffered or are suffering because of a systematic process of social exclusion to the country’s opportunities which lead them to being ‘poor’.

Statistically a black person in South Africa was and is born into poverty. Statistically, someone born into poverty is likely to die there and have children who live powerless as well. Thankfully, there is hope for the vast majority of those people and/or their children.

There are white people who are presently "disadvantaged" because, they were born into poverty within their families or they consider themselves excluded to the country’s opportunities. Statistically, they are a minority.
 
OHG you are something else. How in god's name does that say I have an issue with black people? I remember you saying you were Jewish. Now you say you are black. I said they are none or maybe very few black Jews in South Africa. How does that imply anything about black people? ROFLMAO. Maybe you are lying about one? Just asking. You still have not confirmed if you indeed said you were Jewish??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X