Bye bye Iburst and Hello ADSL

People who use ISP addresses always come accross is less intelligent to me. As soon as I see someone with an ISP email address, I know they are definitely not technology-driven/aware people, and will use whatever comes first and is the easiest, but not necessarily the best solution. You can spot a noob by his email address.

So getting an email address at rocketmail, hushmail, hotmail, gmail, usa.net, lycosmail is somehow more intelligent? I use an ISP email address and I've been on the internet since 1994.

For personal email accounts, why would you want to register your own domain name and link a single email address to it?? That's just absurd! Imagine if every user on the planet had to register their own domain simply to have a nice domain name in their email address? We already have enough information litter on the internet..

Well you may have a family website with your surname as the domain name and then many people can have email there. With your own domain, you can buy it out for 10 yrs and it will always be yours unless you forget to renew it. Even if your registrar goes outta business, it is still yours.


Also, if you use an ISP email address, then you are bound to that ISP for as long as you use/need your email address. I have clients who who still have email addreses from the days of dialup, with ISPs like Global, Icon, Netactive and Worldonline. All those ISPs were bought out eventually, most of them by Mweb. Now my client don't use MWeb for any of their internet access or internet products, but they are still paying them about R150 per month just for email. Totally insane.

You can get MWEB email for R60pm but if that's too much for you, then you really need a free email account. I wonder if you can even afford internet access.
So now I ask you, what happens when your ISP goes bust? Say they don't get eaten up by a larger ISP, but just close doors and shut down completely. Now you've lost your email address completely, and have to start from scratch. If you use a free email service (like Gmail, Yahoo mail, Hotmail) etc, which are owned by large, global, reputable enterprises, you're guaranteed to never lose your email address.. There is no reasonable explanation for keeping and using your ISP email address.

Well do you have examples of ISPs going BUST (in SA)? You yourself said they all went to MWEB. MWEB is unlikely to go bust, and even if it does, someone else will take the brand over. Besides if it goes BUST, it won't happen overnight. Between the time they file for bankruptcy and shut down their email servers many months or even years will pass.

ISP email addresses suck donkey balls. Gmail rules! End of story.

Pokemans rule!

BTW Sending email to Gmail addresses is very risky. Gmail datamines everything. The email service is paid for by the datamining. Confidential info should never be sent to a Gmail address. Oh emails about your Neopets (google it), GaiaOnline, MySpace, FaceBook and other junk is OK, just not real email.
 
I have a lot less respect for people using ISP email addresses, because to me they appear to lack intelligence. There's nothing worse than seeing somebody spend a fortune on branding and advertising for their company, only to see them use an email address like [email protected] or [email protected] and see it on their stationary. Now that is cheap!

Not as cheap as using ....gmail.com

It's actually not that stupid. If you access your email from your ISP and use forwarders, some mail servers don't fwd email properly or it ends up getting delayed somewhere. Some email doesn't get forwaded at all.
Some people choose to use an ISP email to have a higher degree of assurance that email reaches them. SOme people actually run their accounts without a spam killer filter - to avoid false positives too.

BTW Free email accounts are banned from some sites, such as banks and certain forums and services. It's another bonus to non-free email account users.
 
Please see my resonse below in bold:

So getting an email address at rocketmail, hushmail, hotmail, gmail, usa.net, lycosmail is somehow more intelligent? I use an ISP email address and I've been on the internet since 1994.

Yes people like you "come off as being less intelligent". I didn't say that you ARE less intelligent, but that is the way that it appears. And they are always exceptions. But for your average Joe, yes, someone with a [email protected] appears less intelligent to me than someone with [email protected].

Well you may have a family website with your surname as the domain name and then many people can have email there. With your own domain, you can buy it out for 10 yrs and it will always be yours unless you forget to renew it. Even if your registrar goes outta business, it is still yours.

I agree with you. But not every family goes and registers their own domain, and to expect so is stupid. Not every family has a little whiz kid who understands these things, and can convince everyone to do it.

You can get MWEB email for R60pm but if that's too much for you, then you really need a free email account. I wonder if you can even afford internet access.

Why would I pay R60 per month for email, when I can get the best ever email service in the world - Gmail - for free. I'd rather use that R60 for 2GB more per month at Afrihost, which will go nicely with my existing 10GB. Would you pay prefer to pay R100,00 for a Toyota, or get a Ferrari for free?

And for R60 per month, you will NEVER get all the same services and functionality that Gmail offers. In fact, for R500 per month, you will still not get it. Please show me any email service that can match Gmail, irrespective of cost. And please read my other posts as well.

Do you think that your average South African, or average Human, can afford R60 per month for email? Think of Sipho who can barely afford his cellphone. Now you're saying he must register his own domain for email, when there are free GREAT alternatives available? That will give him free access from his phone, with a variety of choices, from a mobile app, to the mobi site?


Well do you have examples of ISPs going BUST (in SA)? You yourself said they all went to MWEB. MWEB is unlikely to go bust, and even if it does, someone else will take the brand over. Besides if it goes BUST, it won't happen overnight. Between the time they file for bankruptcy and shut down their email servers many months or even years will pass.

Good point. I agree. But if people can say that "weirder things have happened" about Google going bust, then I rest my case. It is not impossible - but unlikely.

Pokemans rule!

BTW Sending email to Gmail addresses is very risky. Gmail datamines everything. The email service is paid for by the datamining. Confidential info should never be sent to a Gmail address. Oh emails about your Neopets (google it), GaiaOnline, MySpace, FaceBook and other junk is OK, just not real email.

And you think that your own ISP doesn't do the same? BTW, using email in general is risky. But you seem to trust Sipho and Piet sitting at iBurst and MWeb, more than Mike and Sally sitting at Google Headquarters? Why? I don't trust any of them. Confidential info should be encrypted when sent. Like my bank statements - only a keyphrase that I know of will open them. Other files that require secrecy are sent encrypted, or compressed in a password protected zip file.
 
Some people choose to use an ISP email to have a higher degree of assurance that email reaches them.

Would you trust Google more for reliability, availability and delivery of email, or would you trust iBurst, Mweb and the lot?

BTW Free email accounts are banned from some sites, such as banks and certain forums and services. It's another bonus to non-free email account users.

In the 5 year's or so of using Gmail, I've never had a problem using any online service, be at banking, shopping, credit card transactions etc. They've all accepted my Gmail address with no problem.

I agree there are/were sites out there that disallowed free email accounts. There are very few such sites around nowadays - alienate your user-base, and they will be sure to move on and find alternatives. Nobody is going to change, or PAY for email, just to use an online service. They will first look for an alternative. Thats why these sites have either gone bust, or changed their policies. If the RSA banks can accept my Gmail address, I don't see which other institution or website wouldn't, or what excuse they would give.

Besides, with the 100s and 1000s of free email services out there, and the other 100s and 1000s of ISPs, how would they know how to differentiate between a paid-for ISP email address, and a free email address?
 
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Would you trust Google more for reliability, availability and delivery of email, or would you trust iBurst, Mweb and the lot?

A local company with a head office I can visit, a director I could get hold of and a lawsuit I could file against vs a multi-billion dollar company located offshore, with no telephone number or physical offices which is offering a free service, with millions of fanboy followers and no reason to retain me as customer - why the choice so obvious!

In the 5 year's or so of using Gmail, I've never had a problem using any online service, be at banking, shopping, credit card transactions etc. They've all accepted my Gmail address with no problem.

That's you. There are services which do not allow free email accounts. I've come across them.

I agree there are/were sites out there that disallowed free email accounts. There are very few such sites around nowadays - alienate your user-base, and they will be sure to move on and find alternatives.

That's not my problem. I couldn't care about looking for an alternative when I find a site which gives me what I need and accepts my non-free email address, I'm happy.

Nobody is going to change, or PAY for email, just to use an online service.

That depends on what service it is. If it's a subscription to the New England Journal of Medicine (and not saying NEJM wants that) but if it's something meaningful for the mature, productive people out there, they will. Besides, that's not my problem. I have an email address I know works. I couldn't care less how many scammers the site scares of by barring free addresses. :)

They will first look for an alternative. Thats why these sites have either gone bust, or changed their policies. If the RSA banks can accept my Gmail address, I don't see which other institution or website wouldn't, or what excuse they would give.

That's again not my problem. My email address is accepted everywhere.

Besides, with the 100s and 1000s of free email services out there, and the other 100s and 1000s of ISPs, how would they know how to differentiate between a paid-for ISP email address, and a free email address?

They'll only block common fanboy drive services like gmail and hotmail.

In my company they are now barring GMAIL use and forcing people to use their work email addresses. There's many issues behind it, but privacy of data in mailboxes is one - especially as we do contract work for the US govt agencies as well.
 
Please see my resonse below in bold:

I couldn't care what I come across. To some I come across as a n00b because I don't have a neopet account. So what.

Gmail is not the best service in the world. Please prove why.

Secondly GMAIL harvests - datamines your info and your info stays around forever. If you're using your own server or a local co's server which has no interest in scanning your email for adwords, there is an obvious danger in using Gmail. If you can't see it, I can't help you. Google boss recently said "if you're not doing anything wrong, you've nothing to hide" which means they may do nasty stuff with your data. MWEB could do that too, but MWEB's NOT IN THE ADVERTISING SEARCH ENGINE BUSINESS. :)
 
Jeez.. PeterCH.. you're just to thick-headed and arrogant to have an argument with... You stick with your ISP email address, and I'll stick with Gmail. Good for you, good for me. Good bye.
 
Jeez.. PeterCH.. you're just to thick-headed and arrogant to have an argument with... You stick with your ISP email address, and I'll stick with Gmail. Good for you, good for me. Good bye.

No dude. The arrogant person is you. You think you're smart and all these people who use their ISPs' emails are n00bs or come across as unintelligent. You think Gmail is God's gift to the internets, yet you can't qualify why that is except for the fanboy factor. Just because every kid uses Gmail or has a Neopets account, doesn't mean everyone needs one or that it's better or even equal. Sorry man, Gmail is just another free email service and the only thing good about it is the short email address you get to type but as with all free services there are plenty of disadvantages. I've lived through the 90s and the flood of free email services from before the 1st Dot Com Bubble crysis, I don't get excited about free email accounts and free websites.
 
No dude. The arrogant person is you. You think you're smart and all these people who use their ISPs' emails are n00bs or come across as unintelligent. You think Gmail is God's gift to the internets, yet you can't qualify why that is except for the fanboy factor. Just because every kid uses Gmail or has a Neopets account, doesn't mean everyone needs one or that it's better or even equal. Sorry man, Gmail is just another free email service and the only thing good about it is the short email address you get to type but as with all free services there are plenty of disadvantages. I've lived through the 90s and the flood of free email services from before the 1st Dot Com Bubble crysis, I don't get excited about free email accounts and free websites.

You are obviously too thick-headed to even read. You selectively choose which points you want to argue, and completely ignore those points you have been proven to be wrong on. Once, again here are my reasons for thinking that Gmail is the most awesome email service in the world:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...d-Hello-ADSL&p=3644483&viewfull=1#post3644483

You have yet to show me a single email service, free or paid for, that comes even close to what Gmail offers, nevermind offering better than Gmail. Wake up. This is the 21st century. Stop thinking in the 90s. Think Web 2.0, and you'll see how different Gmail is to anything you've ever used out there. If you think that the only advantages of having Gmail, are, as YOU put it, "the short email address you get to type", then you are clearly mis-informed, and shouldn't even be having arguments or discussions about email services. I bet you've never even used Gmail, yet you trash it so convincingly. You also mention that there are plenty of disadvantages. Would you please to back that up??

Privacy issues are a concern, not a disadvantage. Besides privacy issues, you have nothing else to back yourself up with. All you do is argue yourself in circles till you find yourself in a corner, then you say "I don't care". And you're the one calling me arrogant?

No-one is getting excited about Gmail. It's been around since 2004. So if you think people are still getting "excited" about it, you're clearly living way in the past...

Now let's see which points above you choose argue, and which you choose to conveniently ignore...

I await in anticipation.
 
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Come on Peter.. you haven't even given us the name of an email service that is better than Gmail yet.

Would you kindly do so please? :)
 
For a personal "I kan laaik to krap on the interwebz" account GMail does well. Their search functions are extremely well implemented. Their ads is simply mind boggling. But when it comes to finer details like calendar sharing, and centralized management for corporate users Groupwise and Exchange comes to mind.
 
Come on Peter.. you haven't even given us the name of an email service that is better than Gmail yet.

Would you kindly do so please? :)

It doesn't work that way. Show me what Gmail has that other free email providers don't.

You're saying GMail is special, I'm saying it's not better than the rest or average. You need to prove to me or convince me that Gmail is superior to all the other free email providers out there.
 
You are obviously too thick-headed to even read.

You should be banned at this point. If I reported this post, you'd be in trouble for personal insults. :)

You selectively choose which points you want to argue, and completely ignore those points you have been proven to be wrong on. Once, again here are my reasons for thinking that Gmail is the most awesome email service in the world:

I argue the points which are valid to me. Take it or leave it. You're the one who started.

You have yet to show me a single email service, free or paid for, that comes even close to what Gmail offers,

I actually have 2-3 Gmail accounts and guess what, I use them to read and write email. I don't use them for anything else. So the other features are all USELESS for me. The storage space is nice, but everyone now gives plenty of it. And every troll out there, scammer and kid has a gmail address. I don't use them for serious things. In fact, I forgot 2 of 3 passwords I used. I've had Hotmail, Hushmail, Lycosmail and other email accounts before and also forgot about them after a while and left them.


nevermind offering better than Gmail. Wake up. This is the 21st century. Stop thinking in the 90s. Think Web 2.0, and you'll see how different Gmail is to anything you've ever used out there. If you think that the only advantages of having Gmail, are, as YOU put it, "the short email address you get to type", then you are clearly mis-informed, and shouldn't even be having arguments or discussions about email services. I bet you've never even used Gmail, yet you trash it so convincingly. You also mention that there are plenty of disadvantages. Would you please to back that up??

You need to get over yourself. Gmail is a free service that is only punted because it has so many fanboys. Paid email is still better - I already explained why. Also Gmail scans your emails for keywords, has no data privacy protection measures - their CEO even said so, and Gmail is there to datamine email and peoples' habits - not just users but also those who send email to Gmail addresses. Gmail and other free emails are great for kids and casual BS but for serious things a domain based or paid provider with local presence is much better.

Privacy issues are a concern, not a disadvantage. Besides privacy issues, you have nothing else to back yourself up with. All you do is argue yourself in circles till you find yourself in a corner, then you say "I don't care". And you're the one calling me arrogant?

Privacy issues are very serious. Then there are issues that it's a well known, free provider and that every criminal out there can set up such an account. This means that some places do not accept user registrations when one uses a Gmail address. Secondly hackers are forever trying to find ways of getting into Gmail accounts.

If something goes wrong - you only have a form to fill in. If something goes wrong with MWEB, I can contact user MWEB on this forum, he's actually been very helpful, I can also contact MWEB telephonically and if necessary I can go via Naspers corporate and get my story across. If Gmail messes up, do you think they'll even care? Nope sorry.
No-one is getting excited about Gmail. It's been around since 2004. So if you think people are still getting "excited" about it, you're clearly living way in the past...

You're excited about it, to the point of calling me 'arrogant' and 'thick headed' (stupid).

Now let's see which points above you choose argue, and which you choose to conveniently ignore...

I await in anticipation.

I'm sorry but someone who can't argue logically, gets angry and calls me insults will not benefit from my time. Since you already can't see how gmail is inferior to ISP email and how every free email provider out there is virtually the same, I have nothing more to say to you.
 
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Sorry PeterCH, but ToxicWazte is completely right with every single post he has made in this thread. Gmail provides by far better and safer services than local ISPs. Oh yeah, nothing goes wrong with gmail, EVER. Mweb constantly has trouble, and I've tested the gmail support, you get a reply within 5 minutes.
 
Sorry PeterCH, but ToxicWazte is completely right with every single post he has made in this thread. Gmail provides by far better and safer services than local ISPs.

Proof?

Oh yeah, nothing goes wrong with gmail, EVER.

Riiiight.

Mweb constantly has trouble, and I've tested the gmail support, you get a reply within 5 minutes.

I use MWEB constanly and I don't have trouble. Secondly, I don't believe that a live human being responds to you within 5 minutes for Gmail issues.

I guess all these people are idiots then:
http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/
http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html

Then there is the Wikipedia article:

Criticisms
[edit] Privacy

Google automatically scans e-mails to add context-sensitive advertisements to them. Privacy advocates raised concerns that the plan involved scanning their personal, assumed private, e-mails, and that this was a security problem. Allowing e-mail content to be read, even by a computer, raises the risk that the expectation of privacy in e-mail will be reduced. Furthermore, e-mail that non-subscribers choose to send to Gmail accounts is scanned by Gmail as well, even though those senders never agreed to Gmail's terms of service or privacy policy. Google can change its privacy policy unilaterally and Google is technically able to cross-reference cookies across its information-rich product line to make dossiers on individuals. However, most e-mail systems make use of server-side content scanning in order to check for spam.[49][50]

Privacy advocates also regard the lack of disclosed data retention and correlation policies as problematic. Google has the ability to combine information contained in a person's e-mail messages with information from Internet searches. Google has not confirmed how long such information is kept or how it can be used. One of the concerns is that it could be of interest to law enforcement agencies. More than 30 privacy and civil liberties organizations have urged Google to suspend Gmail service until these issues are resolved.[51]

Gmail's privacy policy contains the clause: "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our offline backup systems". Google points out that Gmail adheres to most industry-wide practices. Google has stated that they will "make reasonable efforts to remove deleted information from our systems as quickly as is practical."[52][53]

Google defends its position by citing their use of email-scanning to the user's benefit. Google states that Gmail refrains from displaying ads next to potentially sensitive messages such as those that mention tragedy, catastrophe, or death.[54]

Gmail accounts of human rights activists in China were hacked in a sophisticated attack in late 2009.[55][56] The fact that Gmail stores, analyzes and retains user's email contents makes Gmail an attractive target for such attacks.[57]

The launch of Google Buzz as an opt-out social network immediately drew criticism for violating user privacy because it automatically allowed Gmail users' contacts to view their other contacts.[58][59]
[edit] Technical limitations

Gmail does not allow users to send or receive executable files or archives containing executable files if it recognises the file extension as one used for executable files or archives.[60][61]

By design, Gmail does not deliver all of a user's e-mails. When downloading mail through POP or IMAP access, Gmail fails to deliver messages that users have sent to themselves if the client has a copy of it already.[62] It also does not deliver to a user's inbox (via any access interface) those messages that users have sent to mailing lists and which they might expect to receive back via the mailing list.[63]

Gmail sorts e-mail only by conversations (threads), which can be a problem for large conversations. For example, if a user sends a query to a large group of people, all of the responses are stored in a single conversation that is impossible to break apart. There is no way to search for responses from one user without getting the entire conversation. While deletion of individual e-mails is possible, most operations, such as archiving and labeling, can only be performed on whole conversations. Conversations cannot be split up or combined.[64]
[edit] Outages

Gmail has been unavailable on several occasions. On February 24, 2009 the Gmail service was offline for 2 hours and 30 minutes, preventing millions of users from accessing their accounts. People who rely entirely on Gmail for business purposes complained about these outages.[65][66] Another outage occurred on September 1, 2009. The problem was widely reported by users on Twitter, and Google acknowledged that the problem affects "a majority of users" and promised an update on the situation by 1:53:00PM PDT which would include a time estimate on when they expect to have the problem fixed.[67][68][69] An update at 1:02PM PDT stated that the problem was still being investigated and promised another update by 2:16:00 PM PDT. According to an Official Gmail Blog post, IMAP and POP3 access was unaffected.[70] Later that day, a Google vice president, Ben Treynor, explained that the problem, which ultimately resulted in about 100 minutes of outage, was caused by overloaded routers, triggered by a routine configuration change which added more router load than expected. Treynor wrote, "Gmail remains more than 99.9% available to all users, and we're committed to keeping events like today's notable for their rarity."[71][72]

In 2009, Google continued to experience outages across its network, leaving users without access to their email, calendars, and virtual files.[73]

Key outage dates include:[73]

* September 24, 2009: Gmail outage
* September 1, 2009: Gmail outage
* May 14, 2009: Google network outage
* March 9, 2009: Gmail outage
* August 7, 2008: Gmail and Google Apps outage

[edit] Twenty-four hour lockdowns
Question book-new.svg
This section does not cite any references or sources.
Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (January 2010)

If an algorithm detects what Google calls "suspicious activity", the account can be automatically locked down for 24 hours (possibly less). The user is not told which reason the account was locked down, but only given a list of possible reasons from which the user has to guess (if the reason is even in the list). Possible reasons for an automated 24 hours lockdown include:

* "Multiple instances of your Gmail account opened"
* "Browser-related issues. Please note that if you find your browser continually reloading while attempting to access your inbox, it is likely a browser issue, and it may be necessary to clear your browser's cache and cookies."
* "Receiving, deleting, or popping out large amounts of mail (via POP) in a short period of time" (even if Gmail has features which do so)
* "Sending a large number of undeliverable messages (messages that bounce back)" (spam, possibly using a keylogged name and password)
* "Using third party file-sharing or storing software, or software that automatically logs in to your account and that is not supported by Gmail"

[edit] On behalf of

Prior to July 2009, any email sent through the Gmail interface included the Gmail.com address as the "sender", even if it was sent with a custom email address as "from". For example, an email sent with an external "from" address using Gmail could be displayed to a receiving e-mail client user as From [email protected] on behalf of [email protected] (the display used by versions of Microsoft Outlook). By exposing the Gmail address, Google claimed that this would "help prevent mail from being marked as spam".[74] A number of Gmail users complained that this implementation was both a privacy concern and a professionalism problem.[75]

On July 30, 2009, Gmail announced an update to resolve this issue.[76] The updated custom 'From:' feature allows users to send messages from Gmail using a custom SMTP server, instead of Gmail's.[77] However, the issue is still present for users whose custom email address is a second Gmail account, rather than an account on a separate domain.[78]
[edit] Disabling accounts

Google's terms of service allow it to disable customer accounts at any time without warning. Google provides a page for users to complain if an account has been disabled in error, but although some users are able to get their accounts back, for others it often generates no response, and users have no other way to get their accounts returned to them.[79][80][81][82]

Anyway - not the perfect or BEST service you fanboys make it out to be.
 
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