Can someone explain to me pls?

Paul_S said:
I don't feel sorry for the majority of people in this country. The majority voted for this mess - it was inevitable.
I also see lots of poor people spending R1000+ per month on cigarettes and booze regardless of their political affiliation. If they stop complaining and quit their habits that's enough to finance a small solar PV system. There's always a way if someone is determined.

Solar PV is within the reach of the vast majority of middle class. For example: I had a discussion with friends who want to install solar PV but they don't have an access bond with spare money in it that they can use for financing. The same applies to most of my relatives. These are people with combined household incomes of R30K to R100K per month but they didn't think for one minute to pay a little extra into their home loans over the years to reduce the amount of interest they'll pay or to use it as a buffer for rainy days. Instead it's new cars, branded clothing, holidays down to the coast twice a year, etc.

The repayment on a R200K loan at prime over 10 years is only R2643 month but people don't think twice about spending R6000+ per month on a new/newish vehicle. Priorities ...
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Wow Generilze much. I know of lots of people that lost their jobs after 2020, that's trying to make an income working from home. Moms that bake cookies every evening just to pay for their kids school fees. That are not as flashy as your relatives. But awesome for them, they have you to look down on them
 
Paul_S said:
I don't feel sorry for the majority of people in this country. The majority voted for this mess - it was inevitable.
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Um no. The majority of people in this country did not vote. No one voted for this mess.
Paul_S said:
I also see lots of poor people spending R1000+ per month on cigarettes and booze regardless of their political affiliation. If they stop complaining and quit their habits that's enough to finance a small solar PV system. There's always a way if someone is determined.
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You do ? I can tell you now that poor people don't have R1k to spend on smokes or boose.
Paul_S said:
Solar PV is within the reach of the vast majority of middle class. For example: I had a discussion with friends who want to install solar PV but they don't have an access bond with spare money in it that they can use for financing. The same applies to most of my relatives. These are people with combined household incomes of R30K to R100K per month but they didn't think for one minute to pay a little extra into their home loans over the years to reduce the amount of interest they'll pay or to use it as a buffer for rainy days. Instead it's new cars, branded clothing, holidays down to the coast twice a year, etc.

The repayment on a R200K loan at prime over 10 years is only R2643 month but people don't think twice about spending R6000+ per month on a new/newish vehicle. Priorities ...
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Whats the net effect of the entire country getting solar ? Prices will go through the roof and no one can meet that demand.

Also... what will be the affect of every single household taking on an additional R200k worth of debt ? How will this affect the econmy.
We are currently considering new cars or solar (and are luckily enough to have some money on the bond). Our cars are paid off but old, the problem is I can't drive those solar panels to work so ultimately have to consider the fact that I will need a new car soon. Its a tough call.
 
Nerfherder said:
You do ? I can tell you now that poor people don't have R1k to spend on smokes or boose.
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Correct. They don't. But they do. I see it every month. And when they can't get a loan from the legal microlender, they get it from the loan shark at 100% interest. The shark keeps their SASSA, bank card or ID card till they pay or draws the owed amount the next month and returns the empty card to them.

Nerfherder said:
Um no. The majority of people in this country did not vote. No one voted for this mess.
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And nobody voted against 26 year ongoing mess either...
 
Paul_S said:
I don't feel sorry for the majority of people in this country. The majority voted for this mess - it was inevitable.
I also see lots of poor people spending R1000+ per month on cigarettes and booze regardless of their political affiliation. If they stop complaining and quit their habits that's enough to finance a small solar PV system. There's always a way if someone is determined.

Solar PV is within the reach of the vast majority of middle class. For example: I had a discussion with friends who want to install solar PV but they don't have an access bond with spare money in it that they can use for financing. The same applies to most of my relatives. These are people with combined household incomes of R30K to R100K per month but they didn't think for one minute to pay a little extra into their home loans over the years to reduce the amount of interest they'll pay or to use it as a buffer for rainy days. Instead it's new cars, branded clothing, holidays down to the coast twice a year, etc.

The repayment on a R200K loan at prime over 10 years is only R2643 month but people don't think twice about spending R6000+ per month on a new/newish vehicle. Priorities ...
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You know 30k to 100k sadly isn't really that much anymore.
100k gross will come out as 60k.
Bond on 2 million house 20k
2 entry level cars 200k is already 7k
Insurance is 2k on that
School fees 4k
Food 6k
Electricity 2k
Water 2k
Rates and taxes 2k
Medical aid 11k

So yeah sadly it's not that much anymore, so not sure where they can holiday by the coast. So unless both people earn 100k gross a month it's not that easy to break into solar anymore
 
Paul_S said:
I don't feel sorry for the majority of people in this country. The majority voted for this mess - it was inevitable.
I also see lots of poor people spending R1000+ per month on cigarettes and booze regardless of their political affiliation. If they stop complaining and quit their habits that's enough to finance a small solar PV system. There's always a way if someone is determined.

Solar PV is within the reach of the vast majority of middle class. For example: I had a discussion with friends who want to install solar PV but they don't have an access bond with spare money in it that they can use for financing. The same applies to most of my relatives. These are people with combined household incomes of R30K to R100K per month but they didn't think for one minute to pay a little extra into their home loans over the years to reduce the amount of interest they'll pay or to use it as a buffer for rainy days. Instead it's new cars, branded clothing, holidays down to the coast twice a year, etc.

The repayment on a R200K loan at prime over 10 years is only R2643 month but people don't think twice about spending R6000+ per month on a new/newish vehicle. Priorities ...
Click to expand...
Millions live in flats and townhouses. They cannot install solar, so let them buy their new cars and enjoy it.
 
Paul_S said:
I don't feel sorry for the majority of people in this country. The majority voted for this mess - it was inevitable.
I also see lots of poor people spending R1000+ per month on cigarettes and booze regardless of their political affiliation. If they stop complaining and quit their habits that's enough to finance a small solar PV system. There's always a way if someone is determined.

Solar PV is within the reach of the vast majority of middle class. For example: I had a discussion with friends who want to install solar PV but they don't have an access bond with spare money in it that they can use for financing. The same applies to most of my relatives. These are people with combined household incomes of R30K to R100K per month but they didn't think for one minute to pay a little extra into their home loans over the years to reduce the amount of interest they'll pay or to use it as a buffer for rainy days. Instead it's new cars, branded clothing, holidays down to the coast twice a year, etc.

The repayment on a R200K loan at prime over 10 years is only R2643 month but people don't think twice about spending R6000+ per month on a new/newish vehicle. Priorities ...
Click to expand...
Ah yes

Thats what we need. A fresh dose of judgement and opinion to get people to align with your way of thinking

You dont need to feel sorry for anyone either. People can make their own choices. And if they want to complain, let them, who cares?
 
Nerfherder said:
There is quite a lot of innovation in the wind space. I rate within a few years we will have a simple quiet wind power solution off the shelf.


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The problem with wind is reliability. You get it when you get it. With solar, barring rain, you know that you will get light during the day and nothing at night, and can plan according to that.

Wind would be a nice addition to solar. When it's raining and you're not getting solar generation, you're guaranteed to get wind. And you will often get some at night too...
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
The problem with wind is reliability. You get it when you get it. With solar, barring rain, you know that you will get light during the day and nothing at night, and can plan according to that.

Wind would be a nice addition to solar. When it's raining and you're not getting solar generation, you're guaranteed to get wind. And you will often get some at night too...
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I get wind every day all day + night. Probably 3 days a month with no wind.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
The problem with wind is reliability. You get it when you get it. With solar, barring rain, you know that you will get light during the day and nothing at night, and can plan according to that.

Wind would be a nice addition to solar. When it's raining and you're not getting solar generation, you're guaranteed to get wind. And you will often get some at night too...
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Where do you live where there's no wind.
 
Dan C said:
Where do you live where there's no wind.
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Jhb South. Outside of rain and change of season, the wind is very mild. It's not just about getting wind, it's also the strength that determines how fast the turbines spin.

While solar can be unpredictable, wind is a lot more unpredictable. At least with solar you know when it's day it'll work and when it's night it won't. Hence wind is a nice secondary source, but not a great primary...
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
While solar can be unpredictable, wind is a lot more unpredictable. At least with solar you know when it's day it'll work and when it's night it won't. Hence wind is a nice secondary source, but not a great primary...
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Can't agree more. Even with overcast clouds and drizzle I still get enough power from my panels to run the loads and charge batteries. With wind there are days where there is practically no wind plus wind turbines are generally noisy and an eye sore. Solar panels can be installed discretely and create no noise.

If we're talking large scale wind turbines those have their own issues.
 
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neoprema said:
The owner is currently trying to figure out if they should move operations to Botswana and ship the product back to SA.
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This is the sad part - the knock-on effect is so much worse for everyone. Lost jobs, lost GDP etc.

Surely it is possible to use the solar to charge batteries for use when the power is down instead of running off solar during the day?
 
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Geoff.D said:
Surely it is possible to use the solar to charge batteries for use when the power is down instead of running off solar during the day?
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Using solar PV with batteries at home makes sense because there is little consumption at night so the battery capacity can be minimized. One is also typically paying municipal tariffs (R2.50+/kWh) which makes using batteries feasible. If your business is supplied directly from Eskom the tariffs are likely below R2/kWh and if you need lots of power at night it just doesn't make financial sense.

e.g.
If I scale my home solar PV LiFePO4 battery capacity up to 30kWh the break even point is more than 10 years which means I'll probably will never break even before the batteries need replacing even with municipal tariffs of R3+/kWh in my scenario.
 
Paul_S said:
Using solar PV with batteries at home makes sense because there is little consumption at night so the battery capacity can be minimized. One is also typically paying municipal tariffs (R2.50+/kWh) which makes using batteries feasible. If your business is supplied directly from Eskom the tariffs are likely below R2/kWh and if you need lots of power at night it just doesn't make financial sense.

e.g.
If I scale my home solar PV LiFePO4 battery capacity up to 30kWh the break even point is more than 10 years which means I'll probably will never break even before the batteries need replacing even with municipal tariffs of R3+/kWh in my scenario.
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How'd you figure that?

30kWh per day is 900kWh per month, which is R2700 at R3/kWh. Over 10 years (with no price increases) that is R648 000. Even if you discount those cashflows at 6% per annum and assume no price increases you're still at R377k. A 30kWh install should be sub R200k.
 
Speedster said:
How'd you figure that?

30kWh per day is 900kWh per month, which is R2700 at R3/kWh. Over 10 years (with no price increases) that is R648 000. Even if you discount those cashflows at 6% per annum and assume no price increases you're still at R377k. A 30kWh install should be sub R200k.
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He said 30kwh of batteries. That's not sub 200k.
 
Cosmik Debris said:
If you're in an area that gets wind, one of these yacht wind generators will be helpful:

greenyachtsales.com

Home - Green Yachts

What will boating look like in the future? Green Yachts sells these boats and products today. Make your next boat electric - it's the future of boating.
greenyachtsales.com greenyachtsales.com
Click to expand...

Nerfherder said:
There is quite a lot of innovation in the wind space. I rate within a few years we will have a simple quiet wind power solution off the shelf.


Click to expand...
I am not convinced; at least for small residential systems with inverters under 10-12kW. The market is full of turbines with pretty impressive capacities on paper, but it all depends on the turbine's efficiency and the installation site's wind coverage. And out on the open sea, you'd have to have a pretty big yacht (think Russian Oligarch territory) to have a turbine that produces something that is actually meaningful (over 500W), and that can produce it under less than gale conditions. Even a big yacht is going to be uncomfortable with wave heights over 4m, and struggle with those over 6m. See this recent vid from Robert Murray-Smith:

Sunsynk released a pretty interesting vid also of a really windy site with a turbine in Ireland, very interesting. Check out those two MASSIVE 5K auto dump load switchers, those do not come cheap, and are essential to save the MPPT controller when the wind is too frisky, resulting in voltage overload.



Paul_S said:
people don't think twice about spending R6000+ per month on a new/newish vehicle. Priorities ...
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It's all about priorities. For many, driving a new premium brand vehicle that makes them feel good trumps having always-on power. To me, the latter is essential because I work from home. I sold and moved out of a very "trendy" sectional title dwelling in 2019 because I could not put up panels, and I specifically chose a new full-title home with a North-facing roof. I now want another property, with the aforementioned, and a low-ish water table, because clean water and reasonably maintained sewerage is clearly also something that our Transformed government is clearly struggling with. We are all different, with different priorities and needs.
 
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