CapeXit 2

Poll is for all in South Africa -

  • Do you believe W/Cape secession from the Republic is feasible ?

    Votes: 28 34.1%

  • Would you support a bid for W/Cape to secede from the Republic ?

    Votes: 33 40.2%

  • In the event of secession being successful, would you consider migrating to W/Cape ?

    Votes: 23 28.0%

  • In the event of secession being successful, would you consider migrating out of W/Cape ?

    Votes: 3 3.7%

  • Would you support other provinces bids for secession ?

    Votes: 20 24.4%

  • I disagree to all questions

    Votes: 35 42.7%

  • Would you support a "Swiss Canton" style of governance for the Republic ?

    Votes: 24 29.3%
  • Total voters
    82
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Lex should be back tomorrow to answer any more, unless he's sulking.

quovadis said:
There is no mechanism in our constitution that allows for such.
Click to expand...

Vrotappel said:
All you need is 50%+ people of the WC supporting it.
Click to expand...

It's the first question on the CIAG's Q&A page
www.capeindependence.org

Cape Independence - Questions

www.capeindependence.org www.capeindependence.org


Is this legal?

It is legal to peacefully campaign for independence.

In 2010 both the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) and the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigations (Hawks) confirmed it was not a crime to pursue secession, declaring that it was a ‘political matter’. In addition to this, the Cape Party have been registered with the Electoral Commission of South Africa (IEC) since 2007, openly campaigning for an independent Cape during which time they have legally contested both national and provincial elections without challenge or incident.

Far too much time, both by the independence movement itself and its detractors, has been devoted to debating the finer points of law, most of it by people with no legal background. Almost all laws are nuanced and dependent upon the prevailing circumstances and Cape independence (secession) is no exception.

There are multiple routes to achieve independence, including international law, constitutional law, the electoral system and political negotiation, but all of them are premised upon the most crucial legal requirement, moral authority obtained by the democratic wishes of the majority.

Ultimately the starting point to obtain independence is 50% +1 of Cape citizens declaring, whether in elections, signed petitions, mandates or verified polling data, that they would rather govern themselves as an independent nation than be governed from Pretoria by a government they never elected.

Once the people of the Cape have democratically expressed their wishes, it will be for the lawyers and the political negotiators to work out the details with the South African government or, in the unlikely event of this institution refusing to respect democracy, via the United Nations as international law dictates.
 
Brian_G said:
Lex should be back tomorrow to answer any more, unless he's sulking.





It's the first question on the CIAG's Q&A page
www.capeindependence.org

Cape Independence - Questions

www.capeindependence.org www.capeindependence.org


Is this legal?

It is legal to peacefully campaign for independence.

In 2010 both the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) and the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigations (Hawks) confirmed it was not a crime to pursue secession, declaring that it was a ‘political matter’. In addition to this, the Cape Party have been registered with the Electoral Commission of South Africa (IEC) since 2007, openly campaigning for an independent Cape during which time they have legally contested both national and provincial elections without challenge or incident.

Far too much time, both by the independence movement itself and its detractors, has been devoted to debating the finer points of law, most of it by people with no legal background. Almost all laws are nuanced and dependent upon the prevailing circumstances and Cape independence (secession) is no exception.

There are multiple routes to achieve independence, including international law, constitutional law, the electoral system and political negotiation, but all of them are premised upon the most crucial legal requirement, moral authority obtained by the democratic wishes of the majority.

Ultimately the starting point to obtain independence is 50% +1 of Cape citizens declaring, whether in elections, signed petitions, mandates or verified polling data, that they would rather govern themselves as an independent nation than be governed from Pretoria by a government they never elected.

Once the people of the Cape have democratically expressed their wishes, it will be for the lawyers and the political negotiators to work out the details with the South African government or, in the unlikely event of this institution refusing to respect democracy, via the United Nations as international law dictates.
Click to expand...
Starting point. International law isn’t going to help unless you go to war. Constitutional law requires a constitutional amendment that requires national and provincial support. The electoral system isn’t going to help unless your support nationally is enough to assist with the constitutional side.
 
quovadis said:
Starting point. International law isn’t going to help unless you go to war. Constitutional law requires a constitutional amendment that requires national and provincial support. The electoral system isn’t going to help unless your support nationally is enough to assist with the constitutional side.
Click to expand...
National Council Of Provinces
 
quovadis said:
Starting point. International law isn’t going to help unless you go to war. Constitutional law requires a constitutional amendment that requires national and provincial support. The electoral system isn’t going to help unless your support nationally is enough to assist with the constitutional side.
Click to expand...

You're more an expert than CIAG and their lawyers are?

Pffft!
No need for more from me then.
 
Brian_G said:
You're more an expert than CIAG and their lawyers are?

Pffft!
No need for more from me then.
Click to expand...
You’re welcome to pretend otherwise but there’s no magic secession process that is unilateral. Hence why they mention international, constitutional and electoral avenues. Go chat with the Catalans about international law.
 
vigras rojara said:
"Inaction" just seems more appropriate. "Action" feels like misrepresentation.
Click to expand...
Well, as we both know a few of us feel similar, but is it all their fault?
Let's see;

Q3 from Q&A:


Will it ever happen?

The simple answer to this question is: it will, if we want it to.

Gaining independence (secession) in principle is not a complicated process. Once the majority clearly demonstrate their wish to govern themselves, it simply becomes a matter of working out the details.

Anyone who has discussed the idea of independence will have been confronted with a litany of apparently insurmountable obstacles why it can’t happen. The truth is, WE are the only real obstacle between us and independence.

If we allow others to convince us that it couldn’t or shouldn’t happen and remain silent, independence will remain a dream. If we stand up and claim our right to a better future for us all, independence becomes inevitable.


Goodnight gents
 
Brian_G said:
Well, as we both know a few of us feel similar, but is it all their fault?
Let's see;

Q3 from Q&A:


Will it ever happen?

The simple answer to this question is: it will, if we want it to.

Gaining independence (secession) in principle is not a complicated process. Once the majority clearly demonstrate their wish to govern themselves, it simply becomes a matter of working out the details.

Anyone who has discussed the idea of independence will have been confronted with a litany of apparently insurmountable obstacles why it can’t happen. The truth is, WE are the only real obstacle between us and independence.

If we allow others to convince us that it couldn’t or shouldn’t happen and remain silent, independence will remain a dream. If we stand up and claim our right to a better future for us all, independence becomes inevitable.


Goodnight gents
Click to expand...

Yeah, they are about as active as a churchyard cemetery though. Don't see them doing much to promote the concept.

I'm sure Phil MaPockets enjoyed DC though, so there's that.
 
Brian_G said:
Well, as we both know a few of us feel similar, but is it all their fault?
Let's see;

Q3 from Q&A:


Will it ever happen?

The simple answer to this question is: it will, if we want it to.

Gaining independence (secession) in principle is not a complicated process. Once the majority clearly demonstrate their wish to govern themselves, it simply becomes a matter of working out the details.

Anyone who has discussed the idea of independence will have been confronted with a litany of apparently insurmountable obstacles why it can’t happen. The truth is, WE are the only real obstacle between us and independence.

If we allow others to convince us that it couldn’t or shouldn’t happen and remain silent, independence will remain a dream. If we stand up and claim our right to a better future for us all, independence becomes inevitable.


Goodnight gents
Click to expand...
Curious too see who would vote YAY or NAY for it, if it was a possibility next week.
 
Brian_G said:
Well, as we both know a few of us feel similar, but is it all their fault?
Let's see;

Q3 from Q&A:


Will it ever happen?

The simple answer to this question is: it will, if we want it to.

Gaining independence (secession) in principle is not a complicated process. Once the majority clearly demonstrate their wish to govern themselves, it simply becomes a matter of working out the details.

Anyone who has discussed the idea of independence will have been confronted with a litany of apparently insurmountable obstacles why it can’t happen. The truth is, WE are the only real obstacle between us and independence.

If we allow others to convince us that it couldn’t or shouldn’t happen and remain silent, independence will remain a dream. If we stand up and claim our right to a better future for us all, independence becomes inevitable.


Goodnight gents
Click to expand...
The details are pretty important though and pretending it’s otherwise, inevitable or without obstacle is disingenuous and reckless especially to those who you’re trying to convince or relying on for support.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
Curious too see who would vote YAY or NAY for it, if it was a possibility next week.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t they be limiting voting to those resident in WC including those granted citizenship? Typically you’d have to have spent 6 months continuously in the last 12 months to be considered - that’s at least how residency is typically recognized.
 
quovadis said:
Wouldn’t they be limiting voting to those resident in WC including those granted citizenship? Typically you’d have to have spent 6 months continuously in the last 12 months to be considered - that’s at least how residency is typically recognized.
Click to expand...

It's a hypothetical question, YAY & NAY for nationally and then another poll for WC residents.

I'm in Gautengalengaleng, been here all my life.
 
Vrotappel said:
Only the people of the WC need to care. The rest of SA does not matter in this decision.
Click to expand...

Most of them may wish WC well anyway. Did a successful forum poll about that, I think a year or so ago

Just need to be fair re assets negotiation (but doubt the ANC know how to be).
 
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