CapeXit 2

[lexity]

This business of consulting everyone outside the group, to essentially get their permission to leave the political union is one of the clearest litmus tests there is, in terms of just who has an authoritarian itch to scratch.

When those lending their support, to the eternally ungrateful, decide to withdraw it and give it to someone else, who is a little more grateful and much less abusive, then the wailing begins.

If you could just see yourselves. You're a sight for sore eyes.

You're proposing removing current freedom of movement from the majority of a country's population without their consent. You can't seem to understand that people might not be too keen on that.

So much for your precious FoA.
[/QUOTE]

Freedom of movement?

What right does that derive from?

 

[vigras rojara]

You're proposing removing current freedom of movement from the majority of a country's population without their consent. You can't seem to understand that people might not be too keen on that.

So much for your precious FoA.

Freedom of movement?

What right does that derive from?
[/QUOTE]

What right do you have to remove their freedom of movement?

Clue - You don't.

 

[lexity]

Freedom of movement?

What right does that derive from?

vigras:

What right do you have to remove their freedom of movement?

Clue - You don't.

South Africans do not belong to a Venus Flytrap political union.

Assuming they joined of their own volition, the legitimacy of that union still requires ongoing consent of its members.

After the union is formed it doesn't thereby become a colony.

Are you perhaps letting your imperialist mask slip, there, vigras?

 

[lexity]

Pinkos don't seem to have much of an idea as to how individual rights, as a concept, came about i.e. historically.

They appear to perceive of rights as privileges.... like sweeties, doled out by a sugar daddy i.e. a paternalistic State.

 

[vigras rojara]

What right do you have to remove their freedom of movement?

Clue - You don't.

South Africans do not belong to a Venus Flytrap political union.

Assuming they joined of their own volition, the legitimacy of that union still requires ongoing consent of its members.

After the union is formed it doesn't thereby become a colony.

Are you perhaps letting your imperialist mask slip, there, vigras?
[/QUOTE]

Waffle waffle waffle.

You're proposing reducing people's freedom of movement and you can't seem to fathom why said people might not appreciate that, because blah blah.

Out of touch doesn't even come into it.

 

[lexity]

Looks like something is wrong with the forum replying/quoting mechanism......

 

[vigras rojara]

Yup, quotes definitely misbehaving.

 

[quovadis]

Follow up questions, why NAY and are you currently a WC resident?

Nay, because secession doesn’t solve the challenges we face as South Africans and nothing I’ve seen suggests the WC would be truly sustainable on its own especially when so many of the arguments rely on overstated or conflated evidence or on assumptions.

Furthermore, after all this time, you’d expect a fully developed plan with broad, transparent consultation on the scale a decision like this demands - the absence of that only highlights how unrealistic the proposal really is. I don’t believe most WC residents would support secession anyway once the real-world complexities are understood. The idea is far easier to sell in theory than in practice.

And if change is truly the goal, we already have far simpler and safer mechanisms to fix what isn’t working - long before resorting to constitutional upheaval or hoping for outside intervention with unpredictable consequences. My belief is that progress comes from strengthening South Africa as a whole, not dividing it.

I’m not currently a WC resident, but much of my family lives there.

 

[quovadis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1991042868153057770

Phil Craig talks as if South Africa was born the day he cleared customs.

 

[lexity]

quovadis:

Follow up questions, why NAY and are you currently a WC resident?

Nay, because secession divorce doesn’t solve the challenges we face as South Africans a married couple and nothing I’ve seen suggests the WC my wife would be truly sustainable on its her own especially when so many of the arguments rely on overstated or conflated evidence or on assumptions.

Furthermore, after all this time, you’d expect a fully developed plan with broad, transparent consultation on the scale a decision like this demands - the absence of that only highlights how unrealistic the proposal really is. I don’t believe most WC residents my wife would support secession divorce anyway once the real-world complexities are understood. The idea is far easier to sell in theory than in practice.

And if change is truly the goal, we 'we' already have far simpler and safer mechanisms to fix what isn’t working - long before resorting to constitutional upheaval of a messy divorce or hoping for outside intervention with unpredictable consequences. My belief - as the husband - is that progress comes from strengthening South Africa the marriage as a whole, not dividing it.

I’m not currently a WC resident, on good enough terms with my wife to speak for her, but much of my family lives there is.

Ftfy.

Spoken like the abusive husband, who only wants the very best for his wife..

 

[Jer1cho]

Phil Craig talks as if South Africa was born the day he cleared customs.

He also goes on about 'us' and 'we' and 'our' as if the WC is somehow not a part of SA. Entitlement is rather massive, especially from a British immigrant.

 

[Splinter]

List of possible policies that CIM (Cape Independence Movement) should address, as suggested by AI after some careful questioning (from old thread) ;





(^^ one word altered in last line, to fit)


Bye

Bye? You were gone for a whole 21 minutes.

 

[Cray]

So in terms of historical precedent, has any territory actually gone through with a secession after a referendum?

 

[lexity]

He also goes on about 'us' and 'we' and 'our' as if the WC is somehow not a part of SA. Entitlement is rather massive, especially from a British immigrant.

If you look at the WC's voting record over the last 30 years, there's no question it stands apart from the rest of SA.

The WC people have never once given a majority mandate to the ANC.

Can you imagine the Democrats in the US not winning an election in 30 years?

The typical white SAn has a guilt complex. Which prevents him from standing up for his core values as an equal, before the law.

 

[Jer1cho]

If you look at the WC's voting record over the last 30 years, there's no question it stands apart from the rest of SA.

The WC people have never once given a majority mandate to the ANC.

Can you imagine the Democrats in the US not winning an election in 30 years?

The typical white SAn has a guilt complex. Which prevents him from standing up for his core values as an equal, before the law.

People's voting habits doesn't make the WC any less a part of the Republic of South Africa though. SA is what it is, for better or worse.

 

[vigras rojara]

If you look at the WC's voting record over the last 30 years, there's no question it stands apart from the rest of SA.

The WC people have never once given a majority mandate to the ANC.

Can you imagine the Democrats in the US not winning an election in 30 years?

The typical white SAn has a guilt complex. Which prevents him from standing up for his core values as an equal, before the law.

Yet a lot more WC people voted for the ANC in the last election than for the "we got one quarter of one percent" Referendum Party, so....

 

[lexity]

People's voting habits doesn't make the WC any less a part of the Republic of South Africa though. SA is what it is, for better or worse.

Sounds like Collectivism, to me.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

The vote would again extend only to the area sought to be seceded.

What is the most recent "AREA" for the Independent Cape?

Is it as simple as the entire Western Cape Province, or is it overlapping into parts of NC and EC Provinces?

 

[Splinter]

Well, as we both know a few of us feel similar, but is it all their fault?
Let's see;

Q3 from Q&A:


Will it ever happen?

The simple answer to this question is: it will, if we want it to.

Gaining independence (secession) in principle is not a complicated process. Once the majority clearly demonstrate their wish to govern themselves, it simply becomes a matter of working out the details.

Anyone who has discussed the idea of independence will have been confronted with a litany of apparently insurmountable obstacles why it can’t happen. The truth is, WE are the only real obstacle between us and independence.

If we allow others to convince us that it couldn’t or shouldn’t happen and remain silent, independence will remain a dream. If we stand up and claim our right to a better future for us all, independence becomes inevitable.


Goodnight gents

This is the crux - you are applying a theoretical, blue-sky view to an action that would result in civil war here in SA.

I cannot grasp how you do not see the inherent complications with our circumstances, and insist that it will be a simple process that only requires a majority vote.

 

[Splinter]

So in terms of historical precedent, has any territory actually gone through with a secession after a referendum?

I think I asked this question about two years ago