CapeXit 2

Poll is for all in South Africa -

  • Do you believe W/Cape secession from the Republic is feasible ?

    Votes: 28 34.1%

  • Would you support a bid for W/Cape to secede from the Republic ?

    Votes: 33 40.2%

  • In the event of secession being successful, would you consider migrating to W/Cape ?

    Votes: 23 28.0%

  • In the event of secession being successful, would you consider migrating out of W/Cape ?

    Votes: 3 3.7%

  • Would you support other provinces bids for secession ?

    Votes: 20 24.4%

  • I disagree to all questions

    Votes: 35 42.7%

  • Would you support a "Swiss Canton" style of governance for the Republic ?

    Votes: 24 29.3%
  • Total voters
    82
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Grant said:
this one:

The Libertarian Town That Ruined Life for Everyone.​

"A libertarian experiment promised freedom in rural New Hampshire—until taxes vanished, garbage piled up, crime rose, and bears moved in. The bizarre true story of Grafton’s Free Town collapse project."

Click to expand...
The latest in a long series of rehashes of this story.

:sleep:
 
lexity said:
Read the 'mytheory' post, linked to earlier... it explains the resistance to free market reforms.

There has not been a totally free market economy, that I know of.

Free market economics, to the extent is has been practiced, has been attacked and marginalized several times in economic history.

If you look up the the origin story of post-Roman free-market development in Europe, the modern State was born in opposition to the wealth that was being generated without the permission or involvement of the then rulers.

This was a major challenge to the ubiquitous 2-tier system. It was the birth of a Middle-Class.

Immediately legal privilege(in the form of guilds, in England) was assigned by the King to prevent open competition from requiring the ruling class and aristocracy be subject - like everyone else - to market forces.

So I won't go into detail, here, unless anyone is interested, but to the degree freedom to transact was uninterfered-with, there were results which over time became predictable.

To the extent, today, that we have economic indices that show less government intervention in the economy = greater prosperity, across all classes.

We've had a working formula for a very long time. Centuries. But there is an ongoing war between the biological reductionist, lateral/incremental thinkers, and those who understand the benefits of exponential development.

The form of government, known as the State, won out against genuinely free markets. The free marketers were forced out of open debate, and were met with fierce, violent resistence to going it alone to prove their system could get much better results.

This is why the advice: if you don't like the rules in your homeland, South Africa, then leave and go live someone where else... is trite.

The State is pretty much ubiquitous. There are only fledgling free market nations who are in the early stages of establishing themselves in the international community,

Funny - and sadly - enough, the US is one of the examples where secession resulted in 80 years of a booming economy.

That was until the Hamiltonian protectionists and their descendents, like Lincoln - the US forebears who Trump looks up to - ruined the US experiment. They put a massive stop on the general expectation that people should be free not only to join a political union but to leave it, too.

They instead tried to cover over their anti-market bias and the brutal war against their own fellow citizens, with care and interest for the slaves.
Click to expand...
That wall of text could have been simplified by you saying

"No, no real world example"

So all of your predictions have no actual real world backing?
 
Cray said:
That wall of text could have been simplified by you saying

"No, no real world example"
Click to expand...
Cray, you have looked at even the most cucked libertarian economic indices, for God's sake.... you'd see free markets are what make people flourish economically.

Who do you think you're fooling.

You're not interested. It's plain to see.

But then why are you here?

Cray said:
So all of your predictions have no actual real world backing?
Click to expand...
Give an example, please.
 
lexity said:
Cray, you have looked at even the most cucked libertarian economic indices, for God's sake.... you'd see free markets are what make people flourish economically.
Click to expand...
Totally free markets make certain people flourish, those with market power.

lexity said:
Who do you think you're fooling.

You're not interested. It's plain to see.

But then why are you here?
Click to expand...
Because its fascinating to watch you try to defend the BS that you clearly believe.

lexity said:
Give an example, please.
Click to expand...
You want an example of your lack of examples? :oops:
 
Cray said:
The only actual real world experiment that shows your lunacy for what it is, no wonder you choose to ignore it
Click to expand...
If I thought I could only learn at the rate of biological evolution(*)... then perhaps I would choose to ignore it.

On the contrary, just like with every social experiment, I'm eager to learn from any mistakes made. Why wouldn't I be? I learn much, much faster than Social Darwinists, so... no problem. The more the merrier.

The more such experiments are (voluntarily) embarked on, the better.

I've said this for 6 years straight on this forum.

* mytheory post: https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/thr...ions-reported-in-tehran.1333906/post-34297293
 
lexity said:
No... of this...
Click to expand...
Am on my phone so I am not going to quote, but you claimed that consumers would punish misbehaving companies in a non- statist economy, it was about 4-5 posts back in this thread.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Be honest you have fsck all idea about the bill of rights.
Click to expand...
First you flounder when asked for your personal understanding of Democracy.

And you dodge like **** to avoid confronting a simple, candid, open approach to discourse.

Then you show your racist colors by reading too much in to what I said about Communists... since apparently you think Communists can only be of one particular race.

Then you query my rationale for leaving equality out of the bill of rights.

And I show you how you are going to take the exact same coward's way out again.

Twice in 2 days. Have you no shame? :ROFL:

I'm curious: Tell me.... are you able to learn from mistakes of the past, by simply paying attention? Or do you learn at the rate of biological evolution?
 
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Cray said:
Am on my phone so I am not going to quote, but you claimed that consumers would punish misbehaving companies in a non- statist economy, it was about 4-5 posts back in this thread.
Click to expand...
Oh yes, that's an easy one.

I stand by that 'prediction' because it's pretty obvious.

If someone treats you badly, in life, you tend to move away from them.

Simple human fact of life.

You're not honestly going to deny that when you take away legal limits to moving away from an abuser that people will actually do that, are you?
 
lexity said:
First you flounder when asked for your personal understanding of Democracy.

And you dodge like **** to avoid confronting a simple, candid, open approach to discourse.

Then you show your racist colors by reading too much in to what I said about Communists... since apparently you think Communists can only be of one particular race.

Then you query my rationale for leaving equality out of the bill of rights.

And I show you how you are going to take the exact same coward's way out again.

Twice in 2 days. Have you no shame?

I'm curious: Tell me.... are you able to learn from mistakes of the past, by simply paying attention? Or do you learn at the rate of biological evolution?
Click to expand...

No you asked for my definition.. Or have you redefined the definition of definition now?

And wtf are you on about in terms of communists? BTW don't you think we're all commies by calling us pinkos all the time? Make up your mind lexy.

No, I didn't query your rationale for leaving equality out of the bill of rights, I told you you have fsck all idea about the bill of rights.

Keep up lexy, you're losing the plot.
 
Good lordie.... is it Friday night or something... oh... look...yes, it yes... Friday the 13th nogal.

I prefer that to the notion of a sobre TB spouting this garbage.

Dismissed.

:barefoot:
 
Cray said:
lexity said:
Cray, you have looked at even the most cucked libertarian economic indices, for God's sake.... you'd see free markets are what make people flourish economically.
Click to expand...
Totally free markets make certain people flourish, those with market power.
:oops:
Click to expand...
Be honest, you believe markets can be both free and State-regulated simultaneously.
 
Well, I wish everyone a fine evening.... at least we've all learned that both Grant and Porchrat consider Libertarianism on-topic for this thread.

Happy Friday the 13th

:thumbsup:
 
lexity said:
Oh yes, that's an easy one.

I stand by that 'prediction' because it's pretty obvious.
Click to expand...
lexity said:
If someone treats you badly, in life, you tend to move away from them.
Click to expand...
Except that a truly free market has no protection against anti competitiveness and monopolistic power. Consumers generally have no idea if a company is screwing up the environment or screwing them over with unsafe products.

Your Utopia is dependant on consumers having perfect information which is never going to happen in the real world.
 
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