Car Advice (+- R150k)

[PostmanPot]

Your suggestions re the price of higher end mid range mileage cars vs new lower end cars with a service plan is myopic. Did you ever take into account the cost of ownership of such cars?

Please have a look at the Kinsey reports before deciding to do this: http://www.kinseyreports.co.za/

For a specific comparison on the 2014 report for like to like parts total cost:

Hyundai I20 : 64,022.69
Mercedes C200 : 157,453.14

What exactly is your point? Of course parts cost more on better cars.

 

[adinfinitum]

Point is OP was looking for a vehicle that was low on running costs and repairs. Getting a 2nd hand high end car - although for the same price or cheaper than a new car - does not satisfy that criteria.

 

[PostmanPot]

Point is OP was looking for a vehicle that was low on running costs and repairs. Getting a 2nd hand high end car - although for the same price or cheaper than a new car - does not satisfy that criteria.

I haven't seen any high end cars here, only entry level 'luxury' cars which I take is what you're referring to. I've got news for you, most of them are cheap to service and maintain, within reason. Spending R5k vs R10k over a few years on servicing/maintenance is within most people's means, otherwise they would not be spending over R100,000 at once on a car. Generally speaking. The fact they're spending that kind of money suggests they're more than capable to afford the slightly increased maintenance costs.

I love how people make it out as if they're going be be saving a fortune by going for a cheap car. What nonsense. And the comfort, safety and performance more than makes up for it.

 

[adinfinitum]

Oh my we must have a good salary earner here. Yes a few thousand makes a difference! I pay approx R2k per month on my car payments which includes a service plan. Once out of a service plan Hyundai is one of the cheapest services you can get. Ask somebody who owns even an entry level BMW, Audi or Merc what an out of pocket service costs. From my general research you're looking at about half the price difference!

Also I think that you're driven by ego here as you keep implying that cheaper new cars aren't good.

The Hyundai i20 specifically got a max 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating.

So your "better" car may be prettier and go faster, but it doesn't make your average cheaper car any less decent or reliable.

 

[Charly]

Also I think that you're driven by ego here as you keep implying that cheaper new cars aren't good.

So your "better" car may be prettier and go faster, but it doesn't make your average cheaper car any less decent or reliable.

Nobody said they weren't good. Just not as good as the "luxury" cars.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it will be more reliable.

 

[chickenbeef]

Your suggestions re the price of higher end mid range mileage cars vs new lower end cars with a service plan is myopic. Did you ever take into account the cost of ownership of such cars?

Please have a look at the Kinsey reports before deciding to do this: http://www.kinseyreports.co.za/

For a specific comparison on the 2014 report for like to like parts total cost:

Hyundai I20 : 64,022.69
Mercedes C200 : 157,453.14

You can't really compare them like that. Of course the body parts of the C200 is going to cost more than an i20 but that's what you have insurance for.

If you look at the normal maintenance items they almost amount to the same (Subtotal A and B - The Mercedes is actually cheaper ).

Excuse the horrible splicing of two screenshots -

 

[adinfinitum]

Better is so subjective. And no, not necessarily more reliable. All cars have issues.

Of interest: http://www.timeslive.co.za/motoring/2014/10/08/bmw-catches-fire-on-witkoppen

 

[Milano]

@ OP, get a full maintenance plan, rather than just a service plan. Services are cheap, the expense is parts. You can easily get a used, reliable automatic less than a year old with mileage under 20k with 3 year, possibly 5 year motorplan all under R150k. Incl. e/w, p/s, a/c, CD with b/t, auto transmission. Buy sensible, not flash.

 

[Charly]

Better is so subjective. And no, not necessarily more reliable. All cars have issues.

Of interest: http://www.timeslive.co.za/motoring/2014/10/08/bmw-catches-fire-on-witkoppen

That's just a freak accident and not relevant at so. Of course there's going to be those. I remember watching a video of a Lamborghini randomly catching on fire. Are you saying your car is just as good as a Lamborghini.

You guys can't be serious by trying to compare the reliability of a German car to some of those cars that you mentioned. The parts are more expensive for a reason. My mom sold her Merc last year after 7 years of hard work. Had a major issue. Once. They came and picked it up on a flatbed and fixed it. Repair was R60k and paid for by the motor plan. Something to do with the driveshaft.

 

[PostmanPot]

Oh my we must have a good salary earner here. Yes a few thousand makes a difference! I pay approx R2k per month on my car payments which includes a service plan. Once out of a service plan Hyundai is one of the cheapest services you can get. Ask somebody who owns even an entry level BMW, Audi or Merc what an out of pocket service costs. From my general research you're looking at about half the price difference!

Also I think that you're driven by ego here as you keep implying that cheaper new cars aren't good.

The Hyundai i20 specifically got a max 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating.

So your "better" car may be prettier and go faster, but it doesn't make your average cheaper car any less decent or reliable.

I understand that many people are unable to buy their cars upfront, and that a few thousand over a few years makes a big difference. Or that there are many people who believe in buying new with maintenance plan, etc. There are many schools of thought around the subject.

I think you're crazy for financing a new/low mileage/under maintenance plan car on such a tight budget. For reference, would you mind telling us what you've got? At R2k per month I'd imagine that gives you around R100,000 + your deposit. For the interest of others we can then compare with other options you could have had. There might even be owners who can tell us what they pay.

What are your feelings driven by, besides cost? Fear of maintenance? Fear of mileage? Fear of higher end cars? It just seems, to me, that it's some sort of fear. It would be interesting to know, you seem quite interested in the subject, and confident that an out of plan German car is a bad move.

 

[adinfinitum]

@chickenbeef: Parts costs do matter!

Because, as South Africa’s much-acclaimed parts price guru Malcolm Kinsey points out, the cost of body parts “can hit you, literally, from day one”.

INSURANCE IMPLICATIONS

“In the event of an accident, irrespective of who is to blame, the costs will affect your pocket either in the size of the excess you have to pay, or where the write-off point is reached,” he says.

 

[Charly]

@chickenbeef: Parts costs do matter!

You know that stuff before you're in an accident so it's not like it'll be a suprise when you get into a crash.

 

[adinfinitum]

@PostmanPot:

I bought a Hyundai i20 1.2l. I did my homework and the important considerations were monthly cost, mechanical reliability, safety features and cost of service once out of service plan.

I eventually ended with choosing between the Honda Brio sedan (Honda have a great reputation for mechanically sound cars), the Hyundai i20 and the i10 - preference was in that order. There was probably about R10-R15k difference in pricing between the 3. I dismissed the Hyundai i10 due to my discomfort in its cornering. Was about to buy the Honda when Hyundai offered me a great deal. Honda couldn't match.

Don't get me wrong - if I could afford it - I would love to own an Audi A3 - but I know I couldn't afford it on my budget.

I admit I am no mechanic hobbyist - one of the reasons I stay far away from 2nd hand cars. My father on the other hand is superb. He even built up a car from scrap parts including the engine! I take a lot of his advice on my car decisions. I find talking to people that actually know cars mechanically and are older have a lot more sage advice to give. And when you're on a budget - low cost of ownership is imperative! And that means trying to eliminate the bulk of those hidden costs, being practical and giving up on the "ego".

 

[Charly]

@PostmanPot:

I bought a Hyundai i20 1.2l. I did my homework and the important considerations were monthly cost, mechanical reliability, safety features and cost of service once out of service plan.

I eventually ended with choosing between the Honda Brio sedan (Honda have a great reputation for mechanically sound cars), the Hyundai i20 and the i10 - preference was in that order. There was probably about R10-R15k difference in pricing between the 3. I dismissed the Hyundai i10 due to my discomfort in its cornering. Was about to buy the Honda when Hyundai offered me a great deal. Honda couldn't match.

Don't get me wrong - if I could afford it - I would love to own an Audi A3 - but I know I couldn't afford it on my budget.

I admit I am no mechanic hobbyist - one of the reasons I stay far away from 2nd hand cars. My father on the other hand is superb. He even built up a car from scrap parts including the engine! I take a lot of his advice on my car decisions. I find talking to people that actually know cars mechanically and are older have a lot more sage advice to give. And when you're on a budget - low cost of ownership is imperative! And that means trying to eliminate the bulk of those hidden costs, being practical and giving up on the "ego".

Interesting. I don't suppose you have pics of the car he built? I'm into that sort of stuff.

 

[PostmanPot]

@PostmanPot:

I bought a Hyundai i20 1.2l. I did my homework and the important considerations were monthly cost, mechanical reliability, safety features and cost of service once out of service plan.

I eventually ended with choosing between the Honda Brio sedan (Honda have a great reputation for mechanically sound cars), the Hyundai i20 and the i10 - preference was in that order. There was probably about R10-R15k difference in pricing between the 3. I dismissed the Hyundai i10 due to my discomfort in its cornering. Was about to buy the Honda when Hyundai offered me a great deal. Honda couldn't match.

Thanks for the info. I'm sure that, with the way you feel about cars, it was a good decision and admire that you did your homework.

Don't get me wrong - if I could afford it - I would love to own an Audi A3 - but I know I couldn't afford it on my budget.

But that's the thing, you can... And it all comes down to doing it for the quality of the vehicle, not the looks. And relatively cheap maintenance.

Once your car is out of plan and paid off, it will have gone through its period of most depreciation, and will be worth around half (probably around a third of the overall financed amount ). You'll be sitting with a car that still needs basic/minor servicing every year or ±10,000km. You'll still be paying a fair amount for your more major parts.

A basic/minor service for an Audi A3 (since we're using it as the German example of something you'd like) will cost as little as R1,000 - R1,500. Many of the more major parts will be similarly priced, we can see it demonstrated in the Merc example above.

The A3 would have also not depreciated by much, because you would have cleverly bought it after its plan expired and had suffered most of its depreciation.

My point is that once your car is out of plan and you're paying for servicing, the cost is not actually that much less for a cheaper car. Meanwhile your car has lost less value, is more comfortable, safer, and better performing.

I admit I am no mechanic hobbyist - one of the reasons I stay far away from 2nd hand cars. My father on the other hand is superb. He even built up a car from scrap parts including the engine! I take a lot of his advice on my car decisions. I find talking to people that actually know cars mechanically and are older have a lot more sage advice to give. And when you're on a budget - low cost of ownership is imperative! And that means trying to eliminate the bulk of those hidden costs, being practical and giving up on the "ego".

And that is what it ultimately comes down to which I do hope you understand. You're happy to do the homework in finding something and getting the best deal, but if you were willing to put the same amount of effort in doing homework about maintaining an entry level German car, one of them would easily be within your means.

If you're not the type inclined to do this sort of homework, you will be advised as such. Someone into cars (or willing to put some effort in) would be advised completely differently.

 

[adinfinitum]

That's just it - I did do my homework. I spoke to my dad and a mechanic I know. Cause once out of a service plan - you go to your friendly low cost mechanic friend not the dealership. They both warned me about the cost of replacement parts for major services on luxury cars. I also chatted to a random guy that owned a luxury car (can't remember if it was an Audi or a Merc at the time) and he was wailing about his repair/service costs once it was out of the service plan. It's easier if you are a mechanic hobbyist because you can absorb the bulk of those costs in your own labour.

The general advice I got was to go for Honda or Hyundai because of their mechanical soundness and reasonably low repair/service costs. Avoid VW and Toyota due to them being the most popular for hijackings.

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

Very true, hondas are bulletproof,

See many with 250k on the clock, no problems,

Same to with the brio, people here on mybb knock it unfairly becuse its not "german"
Id buy a brio even used, in a heartbeat

Currently driving a picanto and if i had to buy something now, Brio all the way......

 

[adinfinitum]

Interesting. I don't suppose you have pics of the car he built? I'm into that sort of stuff.

Sorry this was many moons ago (pre digital - late 80's / early 90's) and if any photos exist they're hidden somewhere in my dad's garage far far away.

First big project he did was take an old chevy car and convert it into a chevy bakkie. I was still in primary school then. I mostly remember it being sprayed red and that it was a V8 - man it sounded awesome. Fark that thing could go!

Then he bought a written off VW golf for my brother's 1st car - was for like R5k those days and he did all the panelbeating and spraypaint work on it and stripped it bare. I still helped reupholster the inside with carpeting. Fixed the workable car seats + got 2nd hand ones. Then he redid the electricals and rebuilt the engine. Good memories.

 

[Enigma_]

Thanks for the advice guys. I currently own an Audi A3 (Not financed), but due to insane costs of insurance and my horrid parking abilities, I'd rather buy something cheap to get around town and stash the rest into something else. Being a depreciating asset, at my age (24), I'd rather put it towards something decent.

I was looking at the VW UP! as well, I really like the look of it, test drove it recently and must say I was rather impressed. It's cheap and cheerful, but unfortunately does not feature in this country with an automatic gearbox, and doesn't have things like USB port etc. The Hyundai Grand i10 on the other hand does appear to be more feature packed, and is in automatic, but it's not as spiffy as the Up, nor is it as solidly built from what I could tell.

I'd also rather go for the smallest and most practical car, than something like an old second hand Audi. I don't need the flash, or the performance, otherwise I would keep my current car

Does anyone here own an Up? Wondering if it's a better option compared to the i10.

 

[adinfinitum]

Don't know the VW UP but unfortunately we live in SA and hijackings and theft are a reality so be cautious when buying.

I know this is a little old but will give you an idea of most popular vehicles stolen: http://sacrime.info/top-stolen-cars-in-south-africa/

I personally love Toyotas and they are great value for money but this is the only reason I won't ever buy one.