Car Advice (+- R150k)

[FiestaST]

Thanks for the advice guys. I currently own an Audi A3 (Not financed), but due to insane costs of insurance and my horrid parking abilities, I'd rather buy something cheap to get around town and stash the rest into something else. Being a depreciating asset, at my age (24), I'd rather put it towards something decent.

I was looking at the VW UP! as well, I really like the look of it, test drove it recently and must say I was rather impressed. It's cheap and cheerful, but unfortunately does not feature in this country with an automatic gearbox, and doesn't have things like USB port etc. The Hyundai Grand i10 on the other hand does appear to be more feature packed, and is in automatic, but it's not as spiffy as the Up, nor is it as solidly built from what I could tell.

I'd also rather go for the smallest and most practical car, than something like an old second hand Audi. I don't need the flash, or the performance, otherwise I would keep my current car

Does anyone here own an Up? Wondering if it's a better option compared to the i10.

Drove the up! & i10 & if space is not an issue (limiting 3-door layout) imo the up! takes it easily.

The look; feel & ride quality is from a class above; easily.

Main issue with locally is limited models to as not to dump on sales of the Vivo.

 

[Rouxenator]

Thanks for the advice guys. I currently own an Audi A3 (Not financed), but due to insane costs of insurance and my horrid parking abilities.

One of the reason I chose a low mileage Astra. Cost the same as an A3 but it has 5 doors, was built in Germany, has 50,000km less on the clock and is cheap to insure. They can easily reach 200,000km without major problems, no turbos to fail.

Insurance, parts and lack of personality concern me. Resale value not at all because when I trade it I just want something that will make the deposit on the new car.

 

[PostmanPot]

That's just it - I did do my homework. I spoke to my dad and a mechanic I know. Cause once out of a service plan - you go to your friendly low cost mechanic friend not the dealership. They both warned me about the cost of replacement parts for major services on luxury cars. I also chatted to a random guy that owned a luxury car (can't remember if it was an Audi or a Merc at the time) and he was wailing about his repair/service costs once it was out of the service plan. It's easier if you are a mechanic hobbyist because you can absorb the bulk of those costs in your own labour.

The general advice I got was to go for Honda or Hyundai because of their mechanical soundness and reasonably low repair/service costs. Avoid VW and Toyota due to them being the most popular for hijackings.

Anecdotal evidence. You surely do not believe that every German car out of service plan on the road is expensive to maintain and that people have problems?

It's always the bad things you hear about.

There are very few mechanic hobbyists here, in no way was it ever implied that you should work on your car to absorb costs. What was implied is that you should find a non dealer mechanic specialist to work on your out of plan car, which reduces maintenance costs by around half.

Let's face it. You've been advised by your father because he loves you and wants you to be safe. Your route is the safest bet for someone with your mindset, but the trade-off is that you have a lesser car and once it's been paid for you've wasted more money because you've financed and suffered most of the depreciation the car will go through.

Some people see cars as monthly costs, others don't care about losing money. And others like losing as little money as possible; buying second hand out of plan ensures that.

Don't know the VW UP but unfortunately we live in SA and hijackings and theft are a reality so be cautious when buying.

I know this is a little old but will give you an idea of most popular vehicles stolen: http://sacrime.info/top-stolen-cars-in-south-africa/

I personally love Toyotas and they are great value for money but this is the only reason I won't ever buy one.

You're a very cautious person and therefore act and receive advice on that basis. I have no problem with that, but the point is that you could have easily owned that A3, because it's well within your means. It would not have cost a fortune, it would not have been unreliable, etc. etc.

These are all misbeliefs fuelled by your cautiousness. It's good that those fears have been alleviated by having a maintenance plan. In a few years you won't have one, and then you'll be back to paying for services and maintenance slightly less than what an A3 would have cost you. You might even run into reliability issues. Then what?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Thanks for the advice guys. I currently own an Audi A3 (Not financed), but due to insane costs of insurance and my horrid parking abilities, I'd rather buy something cheap to get around town and stash the rest into something else. Being a depreciating asset, at my age (24), I'd rather put it towards something decent.



I was looking at the VW UP! as well, I really like the look of it, test drove it recently and must say I was rather impressed. It's cheap and cheerful, but unfortunately does not feature in this country with an automatic gearbox, and doesn't have things like USB port etc. The Hyundai Grand i10 on the other hand does appear to be more feature packed, and is in automatic, but it's not as spiffy as the Up, nor is it as solidly built from what I could tell.



I'd also rather go for the smallest and most practical car, than something like an old second hand Audi. I don't need the flash, or the performance, otherwise I would keep my current car



Does anyone here own an Up? Wondering if it's a better option compared to the i10.

Hold the boat.

You have a paid for car that you want to exchange for something that you need to pay for every month?

Unless you can do a straight swop and have no finance agreement I don't see how you will be winning.

Get better insurance. It won't change drastically from one car to another, your age is the problem.

Who is the insurer?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Anecdotal evidence. You surely do not believe that every German car out of service plan on the road is expensive to maintain and that people have problems?

It's always the bad things you hear about.

There are very few mechanic hobbyists here, in no way was it ever implied that you should work on your car to absorb costs. What was implied is that you should find a non dealer mechanic specialist to work on your out of plan car, which reduces maintenance costs by around half.

Let's face it. You've been advised by your father because he loves you and wants you to be safe. Your route is the safest bet for someone with your mindset, but the trade-off is that you have a lesser car and once it's been paid for you've wasted more money because you've financed and suffered most of the depreciation the car will go through.

Some people see cars as monthly costs, others don't care about losing money. And others like losing as little money as possible; buying second hand out of plan ensures that.



You're a very cautious person and therefore act and receive advice on that basis. I have no problem with that, but the point is that you could have easily owned that A3, because it's well within your means. It would not have cost a fortune, it would not have been unreliable, etc. etc.

These are all misbeliefs fuelled by your cautiousness. It's good that those fears have been alleviated by having a maintenance plan. In a few years you won't have one, and then you'll be back to paying for services and maintenance slightly less than what an A3 would have cost you. You might even run into reliability issues. Then what?

My Gti has cost about a third less to maintain than the bolt on service plan would have cost.

And the service plan didn't cover discs/pads which was included in my costs.

So yet another thing you pay for just to alleviate this false fear.

That's between 95000 and 150 000km.

 

[adinfinitum]

I understand what you guys are saying but I've experienced both sides. Through my childhood my dad went through 2nd hand cars like a fashion. Included in all the cars he went through was an Audi and a Merc. My dad ingrained in me that unless you have the money or can do most of the labour yourself owning these cars are more costly than buying a cheaper decent car new.

I'm on my 3rd car now having bought new. Each one I kept 5-7 years. Thing is it is nice knowing that if things go foobar your car is the most practical and cost effective decision you made. And you don't sit like the OP with the option of having to downgrade to save money.

 

[PostmanPot]

I understand what you guys are saying but I've experienced both sides. Through my childhood my dad went through 2nd hand cars like a fashion. Included in all the cars he went through was an Audi and a Merc. My dad ingrained in me that unless you have the money or can do most of the labour yourself owning these cars are more costly than buying a cheaper decent car new.

I'm on my 3rd car now having bought new. Each one I kept 5-7 years. Thing is it is nice knowing that if things go foobar your car is the most practical and cost effective decision you made. And you don't sit like the OP with the option of having to downgrade to save money.

Obviously it's more costly, but by a fraction of the amount you've been ingrained to believe, and are wrong about. As we've kind of shown with service costs as well as part cost comparison.

You're owning cars for 5 - 7 years. Probably reaching around 120,000km in those 7 years using 15,000km per year as an average. Major parts hardly need replacing then. Any major parts done around 90,000km (clutch and cam for example) would have been done by the first owner under motorplan.

120,000km is nothing by today's standards.

In those 5 - 7 years, your new car is worth less than half its original value, and you've paid more in financing too for the supposed 'benefits' of buying new when it comes to the cost of running/maintenance.

Where the person who buys a better 5 year old car with 100,000km second hand has bought at the depreciated value, and has had any major parts replaced under plan by the previous owner. The car loses value at a much slower rate than a new car. The second hand buyer has avoided all the depreciation loss of the new buyer.

The only one losing money here is you.

 

[adinfinitum]

Both cars reached around 200000kms and had major services done.

 

[PostmanPot]

The only one losing money here is you.

 

[Rouxenator]

Glad it's not me, I'm saving all the way

 

[adinfinitum]

No I think the difference here is that I know my limitations on cars and choose the safe route on a relatively predictable monthly expense. You take the riskier route which may work out just fine but could work out to be a money drain. I've heard enough complaining about 2nd hand cars to avoid the risk altogether.

 

[Enigma_]

No I think the difference here is that I know my limitations on cars and choose the safe route on a relatively predictable monthly expense. You take the riskier route which may work out just fine but could work out to be a money drain. I've heard enough complaining about 2nd hand cars to avoid the risk altogether.

I think I'm a little like this as well. You're paying for the piece of mind, rather than a slightly snazzier car. In my case, I want the piece of mind, minimal hassle, and best reliability I can get, rather than choosing something a little older. I guess it comes down to preference, I don't think there is a wrong or right here.

Anyways, was checking out the Up, only thing that bugs me is that it's warranty is rather pathetic compared to the i10. It's 3 year/90000KM as opposed to 5 year/150000KM. Plus no maintenance plan with the Up!. I'm leaning towards the i10 simply because of the automatic gearbox, but that cheeky, minimalist design of the Up is sneakily convincing me to choose again. I think I'll think about it for a bit, I'm in no rush.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[PostmanPot]

I think I'm a little like this as well.

As most people are. Simply because it's what the industry needs. Doubt needs to be sown to sell new cars and keep manufacturers afloat.

Also, do not be fooled by 'newer = better'. When you compare quality of many newer vs older cars, older cars win.

You can take 'snazzier' out of the equation. Going new will always work out more expensive, that is the bottom line.

I'm more than happy if you feel it is worth the peace of mind.

 

[Rouxenator]

Also, do not be fooled by 'newer = better'.

So tell me, do you plan to keep your current car for at least a decade and add 200,000km to the odo ?

 

[PostmanPot]

So tell me, do you plan to keep your current car for at least a decade and add 200,000km to the odo ?

What has that got to do with the quote? I'm happy to answer, but first explain please.

 

[Noob-Noob]

Oh my we must have a good salary earner here. Yes a few thousand makes a difference! I pay approx R2k per month on my car payments which includes a service plan. Once out of a service plan Hyundai is one of the cheapest services you can get. Ask somebody who owns even an entry level BMW, Audi or Merc what an out of pocket service costs. From my general research you're looking at about half the price difference!

Also I think that you're driven by ego here as you keep implying that cheaper new cars aren't good.

The Hyundai i20 specifically got a max 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating.

So your "better" car may be prettier and go faster, but it doesn't make your average cheaper car any less decent or reliable.

I have a C Class, Minor Service = R750, Major = R1500

 

[ahoudet]

I have a C Class, Minor Service = R750, Major = R1500

Including everything? Cambelt? Seems really cheap...

 

[adinfinitum]

I have no idea how you got that right. According to one of your other threads (although over 2 years old) where the poster actually works at an automotive repair/service workshop:

It costs about the same as any other car (what they actually cost, not what some bull**** ads about major services being only R600 or something would have you believe). Parts are significantly cheaper than e.g. Volkswagen but labour is more expensive.

First 2 responses are BS'ing or misinformed. Service A is the small one, B is the major service, it alternates between the 2. Usually between R4k and R 12k depending on whether brake pads, discs, spark plugs etc. need replacing. That's at Mercedes agents, it's probably a bit cheaper at no-name brand places but it costs you more in the long run having to fix everything they **** up and subsequently deny knowledge of.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Including everything? Cambelt? Seems really cheap...

Camchain so no cambelt to replace.

But minor / major just refers to regular maintenance and cambelt, suspension, brakes etc fall outside of that.

Minor = Oil Change and filters.

Major = Oil change, filters, spark plugs and air filter, possibly brake bleed or brake fluid topup. Radiator check and topup.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I have no idea how you got that right. According to one of your other threads (although over 2 years old) where the poster actually works at an automotive repair/service workshop:

Like I just said above brakes, discs and suspension and the like are not part of service costs.

But even so it's a major rip at most dealership.

Got quoted R7000 to do my discs and pads at a non-dealer but fancy workshop. Parts costs me R3500 which included the jack and some other bits.

Generally a car that has 15000km service intervals would look something like this.

15k - Major
30k - Minor
45k - Major
60k - Minor + Probably Brake Pads
75k - Major
90k - Minor + Extras
105 - 120 k - Major + Cambelt

Now all of the above should pretty much have been regular services at the listed priced, this why service plans and maintenance plans generally don't make sense as it's around this time they run out.

Now depending on how you drive from about 90k you are looking at replacing brake discs and pads which is a lump of cash. From 100k up you are probably likely to do some suspension work as well.

So yes if you are very unlikely you could look at 12k easily if they lump your brakes and cambelt service together. Or brakes + front suspension.

Problem is many people are way too quick to jump and do the work because the mechanic guesstimates they won't make it to the next services.

Brakes being a prime one where they tell you that you NEED to do them now. Yet you could probably do another 30k without issue. Brakes don't just magically go from ON to OFF because of wear, they start making a hell of a noise first so you'll know all about when you really need to replace them.

Cambelt isn't something you chance, but again something they often replace "because the book says so" even though it looks fine. Or they just don't even read the book and just go by assumption. Like VW's generally needing a cambelt change only at 180k...but every garage does them at 120k even if they are fine.