Carnivore diet

[rietrot]

In the context of humans... yes... because any obese carnivores would clearly not be strict carnivores... they'd most certainly be chomping on an excess amount of carbs.

In the broader context; it's also quite true; with probably the exception of bears... but their systems; specifically their liver is adapted to converting meat + fat to stored body fat...however unlike humans; the weight gains that bears make will not lead to diabetes... plus you won't find any fat humans that can hibernate through winter.

Polar bears are again also very unique; they also have livers that can produce a lot of stored fat without negative consequences, and they have also evolved to tolerate extreme levels of vitamin A; levels that would be toxic for humans -- it's why we can't eat a polar bear's liver.


Bugs are not vegetables.
Some bugs are carnivores, and others are omnivores, and yet others are vegetarians.

Without the consumption of bugs the Gorillas would not survive; the same can't be said about the vegetable aspect of their diet.

In comparison a ruminant's system has evolved to specifically cope with vegetation only; through the help of the microbiota in their rumen; vitamin B12 and other essential nutrients are produced. Specifically its the prokaryotes organisms; in the rumen microbiota; that manufacture vitamin B12. More than that ruminants digestive systems through a process of fermentation and enzymatic action break down vegetation to VFA (volatile fatty acids) and fats; their primary energy supply.

Gorillas in contrast don't have a complex digestive system like a ruminant.. hence they're dependent on consuming insects or other meat sources to survive (for vitamin B12, and other nutrients).

Humans might be able to "hibernate" through winter. Well sort of.

Maybe not on a carnivore diet who knows. But a person with some extra weight on can do a really long water fast. The record is 400 something days? Without eating.

Once off if you plan for it it is certainly possible. Consecutive winters might not be possible.

 

[3WA]

Humans might be able to "hibernate" through winter. Well sort of.

Maybe not on a carnivore diet who knows. But a person with some extra weight on can do a really long water fast. The record is 400 something days? Without eating.

Once off if you plan for it it is certainly possible. Consecutive winters might not be possible.

Planning for a 400-day “fast” would involve getting yourself obese first, so not for everyone.

 

[jbrunevader]

Humans might be able to "hibernate" through winter. Well sort of.

Maybe not on a carnivore diet who knows. But a person with some extra weight on can do a really long water fast. The record is 400 something days? Without eating.

Once off if you plan for it it is certainly possible. Consecutive winters might not be possible.

Wrong... you're not a bear.
Ps. bears don't get up to take a piss and go for a drink while hibernating.

 

[jbrunevader]

Thats a pretty quick narrowing of the definition of carnivore there but it is useful to stick to hums when discussing human nutrition and not bug and lobsters

So your theory would be disproven if we were to find out that gorillas do in fact derive enough b12 from their herbivore diet. Say for example they have beneficial bacteria that generate b12 in their large gut where they can also absorb this b12 - all without an animal source.

Nope... you are the only one who approaches a "carnivore diet" thread thinking its about more than just humans.
Go ahead an prove that there are gorillas who don't eat any meat or bugs.... I'll wait for the study, and hence derive b12 from vegetation.

Ps. buff looking goats are not gorillas.

 

[Tim_vb]

Nope... you are the only one who approaches a "carnivore diet" thread thinking its about more than just humans.
Go ahead an prove that there are gorillas who don't eat any meat or bugs.... I'll wait for the study, and hence derive b12 from vegetation.

Ps. buff looking goats are not gorillas.

I'm sure there are gorillas who eat the occasional bug... it hardly makes them carnivores.

By that logic because I ate some roasted sweet potatoes and peas with my fish this evening, and I think I am human (although the good Dr JP may differ in his opinion) then all humans are omnivores.

You have to look at broad common characteristics across animals if you want to allocate them into dietary categories

 

[C4Cat]

Nope... you are the only one who approaches a "carnivore diet" thread thinking its about more than just humans.
Go ahead an prove that there are gorillas who don't eat any meat or bugs.... I'll wait for the study, and hence derive b12 from vegetation.

Ps. buff looking goats are not gorillas.

Diets differ between and within species. Mountain gorillas mostly eat foliage, such as leaves, stems, pith, and shoots, while fruit makes up a very small part of their diets.[33] Mountain gorilla food is widely distributed and neither individuals nor groups have to compete with one another. Their home ranges vary from 3 to 15 km2 (1.2 to 5.8 sq mi), and their movements range around 500 m (0.31 mi) or less on an average day.[33] Despite eating a few species in each habitat, mountain gorillas have flexible diets and can live in a variety of habitats.[33]

Eastern lowland gorillas have more diverse diets, which vary seasonally. Leaves and pith are commonly eaten, but fruits can make up as much as 25% of their diets. Since fruit is less available, lowland gorillas must travel farther each day, and their home ranges vary from 2.7 to 6.5 km2 (1.0 to 2.5 sq mi), with day ranges 154–2,280 m (0.096–1.417 mi). Eastern lowland gorillas will also eat insects, preferably ants.[34]

Gorilla - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[jbrunevader]

Gorilla - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That's not a study and hence not proof... provide proof for your claims that gorillas can survive on vegetation only i.e. no consumption of bugs and meat. There are a number of studies of gorilla scat; which prove your claims are rubbish.

 

[C4Cat]

That's not a study and hence not proof... provide proof for your claims that gorillas can survive on vegetation only i.e. no consumption of bugs and meat.

Why don't you prove they do since you're making the claim they do? I'm not sure what proof would suit you if the long term observations, research and study aren't good enough for you? Not to mention having the biology of a herbivore

 

[jbrunevader]

I'm sure there are gorillas who eat the occasional bug... it hardly makes them carnivores.

By that logic because I ate some roasted sweet potatoes and peas with my fish this evening, and I think I am human (although the good Dr JP may differ in his opinion) then all humans are omnivores.

You have to look at broad common characteristics across animals if you want to allocate them into dietary categories

I never said gorillas are carnivores... that's your implication not mine.

I simply said that nobody except ruminants, insects, etc. can survive on vegetation only -- and more to the point no human can survive on a diet of vegetation alone. A healthy vegan is a liar... and a honest vegan is either dead or bordering on death.

 

[jbrunevader]

Why don't you prove they do since you're making the claim they do? I'm not sure what proof would suit you if the long term observations, research and study aren't good enough for you? Not to mention having the biology of a herbivore

Wikipedia is crowd sourced manipulated BS... it's not a trustworthy source of information... even 1 of the founders has openly stated wikipedia is not only a disappointment for him, but is not to be trusted.

Share the study of gorilla scat that proves your claim... or your claims are hogwash.

 

[Tim_vb]

I never said gorillas are carnivores... that's your implication not mine.

I simply said that nobody except ruminants, insects, etc. can survive on vegetation only -- and more to the point no human can survive on a diet of vegetation alone. A healthy vegan is a liar... and a honest vegan is dead or bordering on death.

Well we agree that hums seemed to have evolved to consume omnivorous diet

Also gorillas are massively jacked from a diet thats almost exclusively plants. Occasional bugs most probably don't play much of a role since it seems they can get B12 from absorbing it via gut bacteria in their large intestine

 

[Tim_vb]

Wikipedia is crowd sourced manipulated BS... it's not a trustworthy source of information... even 1 of the founders has openly stated wikipedia is not only a disappointment for him, but is not to be trusted.

Share the study of gorilla scat that proves your claim... or your claims are hogwash.

we need good solid conservative science that puts god and country first...none of this liberal BS about meat production accounting for significant emissions of greenhouse gasses and land degradation

 

[C4Cat]

Wikipedia is crowd sourced manipulated BS... it's not a trustworthy source of information... even 1 of the founders has openly stated wikipedia is not only a disappointment for him, but is not to be trusted.

Share the study of gorilla scat that proves your claim... or your claims are hogwash.

Follow the sources. You prove they all eat insects why don't you?

Most people who do the carnivore diet are just meat eating vegans.

I had no idea how accurate this statement was...

 

[jbrunevader]

Well we agree that hums seemed to have evolved to consume omnivorous diet

Also gorillas are massively jacked from a diet thats almost exclusively plants. Occasional bugs most probably don't play much of a role since it seems they can get B12 from absorbing it via gut bacteria in their large intestine

Gorillas hardly eat the occasional bugs... that's just not how it works... having a larger intestine is not enough... ruminants have a rumen to facilitate microbial (bacterial and protozoal) fermentation of cud... this results in the extraction of VFAs (volatile fatty acids, and the synthesis on e.g. vitamin B12; it is considered to be one of the most complex non-polymeric natural products produced in nature.

Gorillas don't have anything of the sort... hence they like humans need meat to survive (e.g. for vitamin B12); insects fulfil that for some gorillas, where others eat both insects and e.g. small animals and even monkeys.

 

[Tim_vb]

Gorillas hardly eat the occasional bugs... that's just not how it works... having a larger intestine is not enough... ruminants have a rumen to facilitate microbial (bacterial and protozoal) fermentation of cud... this results in the extraction of VFAs (volatile fatty acids, and the synthesis on e.g. vitamin B12; it is considered to be one of the most complex non-polymeric natural products produced in nature.

Gorillas don't have anything of the sort... hence they like humans need meat to survive (e.g. for vitamin B12); insects fulfil that for some gorillas, where others eat both insects and e.g. small animals and even monkeys.

where did you learn so much about Gorilla diets. I'm also interested maybe you can share your sources?

 

[jbrunevader]

Follow the sources. You prove they all eat insects why don't you?

As I said there are more than a few studies to prove they eat insects, for example:

Detection of Termites and Other Insects Consumed by African Great Apes using Molecular Fecal Analysis - PMC

The consumption of insects by apes has previously been reported based on direct observations and/or trail signs in feces. However, DNA-based diet analyses may have the potential to reveal trophic links for these wild species. Herein, we analyzed the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Detecting intraannual dietary variability in wild mountain gorillas by stable isotope analysis of feces

We use stable isotope ratios in feces of wild mountain gorillas ( Gorilla beringei ) to test the hypothesis that diet shifts within a single year, as measured by dry mass intake, can be recovered. Isotopic separation of staple foods indicates that intraannual changes in the isotopic composition...

www.pnas.org

...but also like humans there is evidence that they vary their meat intake depending on what's available...

First Proof Gorillas Eat Monkeys?

Mammal DNA has been found in gorilla feces—suggesting that maybe, just maybe, the big apes eat meat after all.

www.nationalgeographic.com

See that was easy wasn't it... if you disagree, then please provide the study that proves that the gorilla is able to live on vegetation alone, and back it up with a scat study proving it.

I had no idea how accurate this statement was...

Wrong... vegans are not informed at all and not based on provable science... hence their claims are easily disputed. Whereas carnivores tend to have tried a lot of diets, and have objectively ended up with carnivore, because that's what is provable. i.e. holds up to skepticism.

 

[jbrunevader]

where did you learn so much about Gorilla diets. I'm also interested maybe you can share your sources?

I learnt a lot of about animals; feeding, medically treating, etc... by owning and farming with them; some research, some training from local vets, etc... That's also where the knowledge of e.g. vitamin B12 comes from; because I've had to treat many ruminants with vitamin B12 deficiencies i.e. polioencephalomalacia -- it's occurs more frequently in winter and during droughts when vegetation is not readily available, but is also exacerbated by seasonal changes in plant lectins loads -- lectins are essentially a plant's defences against being eaten; they adjust it depending on how threatened they are e.g. vegetation that was easy to digest by ruminants in summer; can end up being toxic if ingested in winter (non growth period).

Farmers e.g. will harvest certain vegetation before they develop flowers as silage for this very reason -- because the vegetation is known to increase the toxicity load of its lectins after flowering / fruiting.

Btw all animals need B12 to survive; those like ruminants that cannot produce it, must acquire it through their diet. Polioencephalomalacia is no laughing matter... ruminants who get this can die within hours. With humans its deficiency is also equally as deadly; hence no real vegan can exist... because they'd be dead.

 

[RiaX]

Sounds like a banting diet to me.

And has anyone addressed the increased risk to colorectal cancers from consuming that much animal protein ?

So you guys following this diet in a day how much animal protein and fat do you consume ?

I'm not vegan or anything and I have a far from perfect diet.

Btw you guys can't talk about b12 without talking about intrinsic factor

Any 50 plus people on this diet here ?

 

[Tim_vb]

I learnt a lot of about animals; feeding, medically treating, etc... by owning and farming with them; some research, some training from local vets, etc... That's also where the knowledge of e.g. vitamin B12 comes from; because I've had to treat many ruminants with vitamin B12 deficiencies i.e. polioencephalomalacia -- it's occurs more frequently in winter and during droughts when vegetation is not readily available, but is also exacerbated by seasonal changes in plant lectins loads -- lectins are essentially a plant's defences against being eaten; they adjust it depending on how threatened they are e.g. vegetation that was easy to digest by ruminants in summer; can end up being toxic if ingested in winter (non growth period).

Farmers e.g. will harvest certain vegetation before they develop flowers as silage for this very reason -- because the vegetation is known to increase the toxicity load of its lectins after flowering / fruiting.

Btw all animals need B12 to survive; those like ruminants that cannot produce it, must acquire it through their diet. Polioencephalomalacia is no laughing matter... ruminants who get this can die within hours. With humans its deficiency is also equally as deadly; hence no real vegan can exist... because they'd be dead.

But regarding gorillas specifically...how would we know if bugs are their required source of vitamin b12 and they don't get b12 from bacteria that ferment cellulose in their lower intestine? How would we know this

 

[BBSA]

Sounds like a banting diet to me.

And has anyone addressed the increased risk to colorectal cancers from consuming that much animal protein ?

So you guys following this diet in a day how much animal protein and fat do you consume ?

I'm not vegan or anything and I have a far from perfect diet.

Btw you guys can't talk about b12 without talking about intrinsic factor

Any 50 plus people on this diet here ?

Yes it is a sub-set of the keto diet

Mainly protein. I adjust my fat intake depending on if I want to gain or loss weight.

Dr shawn baker is 54.