Carnivore diet

[Neuk_]

I know. I'm trying to get your intuitions about this:

Is it cruel for the aliens to kill humans for food?

No.

 

[Tim_vb]

I am not even sure how to answer your response, my point still stands, an animal dying is not automatically cruelty. I would extend that to humans as well, a friend switched off his wife's life support on Sunday as she was brain dead, just like he did with his 13 year old son four years, he is not cruel at all. It's fien if you don't want to kill animals for food but I disagree that an animal being killed for food is cruel, factory farming aside as I have stated before...

I think they motivation is the most important consideration - was your friend turning off the off his wife machine because he wanted to continue to eat steak when he could already meet all their dietary requirements through a combination of plant based foods (supplemented by the occasional organically grown, stone ground spider shake to top up those vitamin b12 levels) OR did he want to reduce the overall level of suffering in the universe?

 

[Neuk_]

I think they motivation is the most important consideration - was your friend turning off the off his wife machine because he wanted to continue to eat steak when he could already meet all their dietary requirements through a combination of plant based foods (supplemented by the occasional organically grown, stone ground spider shake to top up those vitamin b12 levels) OR did he want to reduce the overall level of suffering in the universe?

It's for the steak of course.

 

[Nuke]

Over time my diets has been slowly drifting more and more animal based. I don't see myself going full carnivore, even though I don't care much for most vegetables and think modern fruit should be consumed moderately. Lets not talk about grains in general.

My body seems to be doing best with meat, butter and eggs as staples and it tastes good. Unfortunately very little to no milk or cheese, it seems to cause inflammation.

We just have a moral boundary on cannibalism, I'm not sure if there's any biological concerns there.

Pathogens on the one hand.

Carnivores know that eating other carnivore carcasses transmits diseases

An international team of researchers led by the University of Granada (UGR) has explained for the first time the scientific basis of the old Spanish saying 'perro no come perro' (dog eats no dog): for a carnivorous animal, eating carrion of another carnivore, especially if it is of the same...

phys.org

Also, just a lossy transfer of energy. Why we generally don't keep other predators.
Eating a herbivore makes sense, it condenses nutrients down to a smaller portion. Anything after that you just lose energy.
This last point is one of the main reasons I prefer a animal based diet. Its very nutrient dense and I don't have to deal with any anti-nutrients you get in plants.

 

[Tim_vb]

Interesting that you want to apply the evolution makes right argument for diet but are then completely unwilling to even consider it for movement?

Hunter.
Gatherer.

In none of those societies are people sitting in chairs with their legs at 90° to their torsos for 8 hours a day, who then sit in the same position as they drive home, and then collapse into a couch for another 2 hours of muscle inactivity in pretty much the same 90° position. (Some of these people even lift weights sitting down.)

Aside from their varied daily movement, when resting those societies are sitting mostly on the ground, which forces you to constantly change positions, use muscles to keep yourself upright, muscles to raise & lower yourself off the ground and shift positions etc. Nothing about that kind of sitting causes chronic shortening of the posterior muscle chain the way sitting in a chair the whole day does. You could even make the argument that squatting (ass to the ground style) is more natural than sitting - when last did you chill in a squat position?

So if your goal was optimal health in the domain of movement, you would look at evolution and prescribe for yourself a daily movement routine that mimicked how hunter-gatherers moved & rested.

Similarly with diet if your goal was optimal health yes - you could look at evolution and make prescriptions.

But just in the way that for many people sitting all day is a price they're willing to pay, for others eating vegan is a price they're willing to pay. The ethics of eating meat is more important to them that what evolution is prescribing as most optimal.

This is very interesting belief, am I correct that your belief can be summarised in the following points

• there was a single generic hunter gather socio economic behavior
• there was a single generic hunter gather diet
• the generic hunter gather people were generally healthy
• the generic hunter gather people were generally more healthy than most modern humans
• spiders were not an integral part of the generic hunter gather diet

 

[Tim_vb]

Over time my diets has been slowly drifting more and more animal based. I don't see myself going full carnivore, even though I don't care much for most vegetables and think modern fruit should be consumed moderately. Lets not talk about grains in general.

My body seems to be doing best with meat, butter and eggs as staples and it tastes good. Unfortunately very little to no milk or cheese, it seems to cause inflammation.


Pathogens on the one hand.

Carnivores know that eating other carnivore carcasses transmits diseases

An international team of researchers led by the University of Granada (UGR) has explained for the first time the scientific basis of the old Spanish saying 'perro no come perro' (dog eats no dog): for a carnivorous animal, eating carrion of another carnivore, especially if it is of the same...

phys.org

Also, just a lossy transfer of energy. Why we generally don't keep other predators.
Eating a herbivore makes sense, it condenses nutrients down to a smaller portion. Anything after that you just lose energy.
This last point is one of the main reasons I prefer a animal based diet. Its very nutrient dense and I don't have to deal with any anti-nutrients you get in plants.

sugar and seed oils are is pretty energy dense, are they not?
Sugar 4kcal per gram
Seed nuts 6.9kcal per gram
Spider flour 4.5kcal per gram
Beef 2.8kcal per gram

 

[Bobbin]

Over time my diets has been slowly drifting more and more animal based. I don't see myself going full carnivore, even though I don't care much for most vegetables and think modern fruit should be consumed moderately. Lets not talk about grains in general.

My body seems to be doing best with meat, butter and eggs as staples and it tastes good. Unfortunately very little to no milk or cheese, it seems to cause inflammation.


Pathogens on the one hand.

Carnivores know that eating other carnivore carcasses transmits diseases

An international team of researchers led by the University of Granada (UGR) has explained for the first time the scientific basis of the old Spanish saying 'perro no come perro' (dog eats no dog): for a carnivorous animal, eating carrion of another carnivore, especially if it is of the same...

phys.org

Also, just a lossy transfer of energy. Why we generally don't keep other predators.
Eating a herbivore makes sense, it condenses nutrients down to a smaller portion. Anything after that you just lose energy.
This last point is one of the main reasons I prefer a animal based diet. Its very nutrient dense and I don't have to deal with any anti-nutrients you get in plants.

Personally, I hate food. Waste of time, energy, and money. I'd rather eat kibble if I could.

That said, I cannot discount the fact that when I was on carnivore diet I was thriving. Body fat melted off, physique started looking much better, energy and motivation started to go up slowly but significantly overall, clarity and focus certainly was there, and a few niggles like skin problems, aches, and flexibility all improved. No bloating, no farting. I took a staircase like a 10-year-old kid again. And when baba cried at 2am, I bounced up no problem.

As soon as I put carbs back in, initially I felt horrible again. I genuinely felt bad... like hangover never doing that again bad. And now I feel meh again. Dry skin is back. I'm "normal" again, which relatively speaking is sluggish compared.

I have no idea how much of it was placebo, but certainly was what I experienced.

But alas social convention and family means I can't freely mess around with experimental stuff like that. So it's difficult to keep at it.

 

[TofuMofu]

I am not even sure how to answer your response, my point still stands, an animal dying is not automatically cruelty. I would extend that to humans as well, a friend switched off his wife's life support on Sunday as she was brain dead, just like he did with his 13 year old son four years, he is not cruel at all. It's fien if you don't want to kill animals for food but I disagree that an animal being killed for food is cruel, factory farming aside as I have stated before...

Are you for real? Those people are already dead. An animal gets killed way before it's time. They aren't dying of old age.

 

[saor]

This is very interesting belief, am I correct that your belief can be summarised in the following points

• there was a single generic hunter gather socio economic behavior
• there was a single generic hunter gather diet

For every animal on earth there is the generic type: The zebra, the cheetah, the tortoise etc. And I think the further back in time you move the more generic hunter-gatherers become. Generic in the sense that as choice about what to eat diminishes, the more you need to eat whatever is available. So while diet might've had variations (this group ate more fruit than another group which ate more meat) I think the generic case of the adaptable omnivore still stands.

• the generic hunter gather people were generally healthy

I'm not a carnivore advocate so I still think there's benefit to polyphenols, starches and the various micronutrients found in plants. When your diet dwindles to tubers for a few months are you as healthy as you could be with meat + tubers? Maybe not - so there were probably many ups & downs; good times & bad times. Life was harsh in those days so health was impacted in a very big way by the environment (predators, disease, weather), so the question of 'generally healthy' is tricky given so much susceptibility.

• the generic hunter gather people were generally more healthy than most modern humans

Depends what we're talking about. Were their movement patterns healthier? Yeah I think so. Was their diet better? Depends if you're comparing them to a modern human eating processed foods all day or a modern human eating whole foods all day.

 

[Neuk_]

View attachment 1716293
Are you for real? Those people are already dead. An animal gets killed way before it's time. They aren't dying of old age.

Poor example perhaps, we'll have to agree to disagree, I respect your choice not to eat meat.

 

[Romeo_RX]

Your gut biome will adapt to your diet and then if you divert from it you will feel unwell, even if it is healthier, for a while.

 

[Tantric Smurf]

Over time my diets has been slowly drifting more and more animal based. I don't see myself going full carnivore, even though I don't care much for most vegetables and think modern fruit should be consumed moderately. Lets not talk about grains in general.

My body seems to be doing best with meat, butter and eggs as staples and it tastes good. Unfortunately very little to no milk or cheese, it seems to cause inflammation.


Pathogens on the one hand.

Carnivores know that eating other carnivore carcasses transmits diseases

An international team of researchers led by the University of Granada (UGR) has explained for the first time the scientific basis of the old Spanish saying 'perro no come perro' (dog eats no dog): for a carnivorous animal, eating carrion of another carnivore, especially if it is of the same...

phys.org

Also, just a lossy transfer of energy. Why we generally don't keep other predators.
Eating a herbivore makes sense, it condenses nutrients down to a smaller portion. Anything after that you just lose energy.
This last point is one of the main reasons I prefer a animal based diet. Its very nutrient dense and I don't have to deal with any anti-nutrients you get in plants.

Finding the same in mid-life. Went carnivore for a month after my doctor recommended to me to treat inflammation, was great and will do it every couple of months.

Biggest change was to stop using seed oil. I fry in lard and my body loves it. I live a dirty-keto lifestyle and started my journey on a medically supervised diabetic diet a year ago.

My day starts with eggs, avocado, mushrooms in cream, steak / wors and sour-dough bread (only bread I eat).


Before this lifestyle change, I had constant gastrointestinal problems through diet and stress. Sorted out both and enjoying life to the fullest.

 

[Nuke]

sugar and seed oils are is pretty energy dense, are they not?
Sugar 4kcal per gram
Seed nuts 6.9kcal per gram
Spider flour 4.5kcal per gram
Beef 2.8kcal per gram

Nutrient dense, not energy dense. Mainly protein what I'm interested in.

 

[Romeo_RX]

Cortisol spikes can temporarily give you a clear mind and lots of energy, with lowered inflammation. That does not necessarily mean you are healthier.

 

[Tim_vb]

For every animal on earth there is the generic type: The zebra, the cheetah, the tortoise etc. And I think the further back in time you move the more generic hunter-gatherers become. Generic in the sense that as choice about what to eat diminishes, the more you need to eat whatever is available. So while diet might've had variations (this group ate more fruit than another group which ate more meat) I think the generic case of the adaptable omnivore still stands.

I'm not a carnivore advocate so I still think there's benefit to polyphenols, starches and the various micronutrients found in plants. When your diet dwindles to tubers for a few months are you as healthy as you could be with meat + tubers? Maybe not - so there were probably many ups & downs; good times & bad times. Life was harsh in those days so health was impacted in a very big way by the environment (predators, disease, weather), so the question of 'generally healthy' is tricky given so much susceptibility.

Depends what we're talking about. Were their movement patterns healthier? Yeah I think so. Was their diet better? Depends if you're comparing them to a modern human eating processed foods all day or a modern human eating whole foods all day.

I agree diet, human behaviors and interactions with the surrounding environment make it incredible complex to tease out objective cause and effect. Any type of if A then B reasoning needs to be backed by a truckload of different experiments all pointing to the same conclusion. I mean who among us can objectively say they haven't eaten the odd spider while sleeping?

 

[saor]

Personally, I hate food. Waste of time, energy, and money. I'd rather eat kibble if I could.

That said, I cannot discount the fact that when I was on carnivore diet I was thriving. Body fat melted off, physique started looking much better, energy and motivation started to go up slowly but significantly overall, clarity and focus certainly was there, and a few niggles like skin problems, aches, and flexibility all improved. No bloating, no farting. I took a staircase like a 10-year-old kid again. And when baba cried at 2am, I bounced up no problem.

As soon as I put carbs back in, initially I felt horrible again. I genuinely felt bad... like hangover never doing that again bad. And now I feel meh again. Dry skin is back. I'm "normal" again, which relatively speaking is sluggish compared.

I have no idea how much of it was placebo, but certainly was what I experienced.

But alas social convention and family means I can't freely mess around with experimental stuff like that. So it's difficult to keep at it.

I went raw-vegan for a few months as an experiment. Had a similar experience - glowing skin, bundles of energy etc. (But I wouldn't advocate raw-vegan as a way of eating all the time.)

 

[longboy]

To be honest this whole Vegan thing is silly, If we were meant to be herbivores, wouldn't we have four stomach like cows to exclusively process greens?

Not everybody has 4 stomachs like you @Stinkbeaver !!!

 

[longboy]

I went raw-vegan for a few months as an experiment. Had a similar experience - glowing skin, bundles of energy etc. (But I wouldn't advocate raw-vegan as a way of eating all the time.)

I been Vegetarian with Dairy diet since birth (am in mid 50's now). Gym, relatively free of stress, no major ops or diseases at all.

Never had vaccines except for the usual Covid, that ****d up my immune system now.

 

[Nuke]

Finding the same in mid-life. Went carnivore for a month after my doctor recommended to me to treat inflammation, was great and will do it every couple of months.

Biggest change was to stop using seed oil. I fry in lard and my body loves it. I live a dirty-keto lifestyle and started my journey on a medically supervised diabetic diet a year ago.

My day starts with eggs, avocado, mushrooms in cream, steak / wors and sour-dough bread (only bread I eat).


Before this lifestyle change, I had constant gastrointestinal problems through diet and stress. Sorted out both and enjoying life to the fullest.

For interest sake, is the bread wheat based or something else like rye?

Agreed on the seed oils. For me butter is easier, but when I have lard I'll gladly cook in that too. I know some people that uses coconut oil for cooking, but personally I hate the taste in most foods. Strangely enough I like coconut cream with my coffee.

 

[longboy]

For interest sake, is the bread wheat based or something else like rye?

Agreed on the seed oils. For me butter is easier, but when I have lard I'll gladly cook in that too. I know some people that uses coconut oil for cooking, but personally I hate the taste in most foods. Strangely enough I like coconut cream with my coffee.

Eew coconut oil... the only thing that should be used for is growing hair.