Cellphones possible cancer-causing agents

I wonder how many anti-cellphone fundamentalists drink Coke Zero (or other diet sodas), use effervescent multivitamins, flavoured water, iced-tea or any of the countless other products on the market which contain aspartame/acesulfame which is a much more plausible carcinogen.

Just a thought :)
 
Oh the same old "wikipedia is cited" diatribe. If it really carries so much weight you would use the citations and not a second hand interpretation of it.

I gave RAW DATA and all you can do is give someone's biased opinion on the data.

You provided absolutely nothing. No link, no citation.

The reason people use wikipedia is that it is a convenient source of many citations on a similar topic.


Same ridicule against everybody that disagrees with your view I see. YOU sir are the troll

I ridicule those who spread FUD and misinformation without even trying to provide some credible evidence.

I still can't help but notice that you haven't provided any references to support yourself. Keep it up, you are increasing your image of being a spectacular idiot.
 
I wonder how many anti-cellphone fundamentalists drink Coke Zero (or other diet sodas), use effervescent multivitamins, flavoured water, iced-tea or any of the countless other products on the market which contain aspartame/acesulfame which is a much more plausible carcinogen.

Just a thought :)

that's a bit of an urban legend imo, but i see your point.
it's all about the risks. there are a million things out there which have a greater threat to health.
why fixate on something which has so little evidence for harm.
i guess you either get those who fear the unknown or those who embrace it and seek to understand it.
i'd prefer to be the latter.
 
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/05/31/who.cell.phones/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Neurosurgeon and CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta says Tuesday's announcement, "dealt a blow to those who have long said, 'There is no possible mechanism for cell phones to cause cancer.' By classifying cell phones as a possible carcinogen, they also seem to be tacitly admitting a mechanism could exist.

now it seems after years of DENIAL they have now decided that cell phones can cause brain cancer!??
 
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now it seems after years of DENIAL they have now decided that cell phones can cause brain cancer!??

Why does it have to be so black and white? Either DENIAL or CAUSE? It's actually neither. It rarely is. It's doubt. Uncertainty. We are operating at a low level of science and epistemology here. We're saying "possible" and "can" to mean: "non-zero probability" and "not impossible".

But for all _practical_ purposes, no, cell phones don't cause brain cancer.
 
Okay, so what is the putative pathway from calcium efflux to cancer? If RF can cause cancer, there will be studies showing as much (with dose response). Do you have citations?

Until I see these I'm with Jab's guy. One guy who works on RF antennae and dies of a brain tumour is barely evidence, let alone proof. I take "possible" to mean "above-zero probability", but no more than that at this stage.
...
But for all _practical_ purposes, no, cell phones don't cause brain cancer.

This last statement is so absurd, I felt I had to answer some of this.

There's a dogma that goes "non-ionising radiation cannot break chemical bonds therefore it cannot break DNA therefore it cannot cause cancer".

Yet there are several peer-reviewed studies, including the EU's major REFLEX study, which show that cellphone radiation (especially 3G) does indeed cause single- and double-strand DNA breaks. One of the possible explanations is just that by interfering with cell chemistry (which is why I quoted the calcium efflux story, which has been known for years), RF interferes with the DNA repair process. This will obviously lead to observed DNA breaks.

Please don't take my word for the fact that the literature shows DNA breaks etc. As I posted previously on this site, the industry's own research indicates this. The ECOLOG study, commissioned by T-Mobil of Germany, reported the following:

This review of over 220 peer-reviewed and published papers found strong indications for the cancer-initiating and cancer-promoting effects of high frequency electromagnetic fields used by mobile telephone technology. Experiments on cell cultures at power flux densities much lower than the guidelines, yielded strong indications for genotoxic effects of these fields, like single and double-stranded DNA breaks and damage to chromosomes. The findings that high frequency electromagnetic fields influence cell transformation, cell growth promotion and cell communication also point on a carcinogenic potential of the fields used for mobile telephony. The study also found teratogenic effects (birth deformities) and loss of fertility in animal studies. Moreover, disruptions of other cellular processes, like the synthesis of proteins and the control of cell functions by enzymes, have been demonstrated.

Please go and argue with T-Mobil if you don't like what you read there. This is all ancient news.

If you want to argue with me, I am going to insist now that you actually go and read "Cellular Telephone Russian Roulette" by the late Robert C Kane. You can download the entire book for free here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/21783803/Cellular-Telephone-Russian-Roulette

It is a very stupid thing to dismiss this book as "One guy who works on RF antennae and dies of a brain tumour is barely evidence". I stressed that Kane never even mentioned that he was dying of a brain tumour while he wrote the book. The point is that he was a genuine Motorola "insider", who reveals in meticulous detail exactly what the industry knew about the risks from the 1950s, and exactly how they covered up and fudged all the issues. I'm not prepared even to look at any further posts from you until I can see that you've actually read this book.

What is perhaps most interesting is that Kane revealed years ago exactly what the long-term strategy of the industry would be, and we can see it playing out right before our eyes.

He said that they knew all along that at a certain point (like now, when the WHO says whoops, maybe this radiation actually does cause cancer...) they would have to accept that they couldn't sweep this under the carpet any longer -- but by that time, the technology would be so entrenched that we wouldn't be able to do without it.

At this point, we would see a vast proliferation of very low-intensity masts everywhere across the landscape, basically every 100 metres or so. Picocells, nanocells, micro antennas, call them what you will -- they're appearing everywhere, almost invisible. And oh, now the levels will be so low that THIS is going to be safe.

This strategy explains one most interesting fact: the director of the World Health Organisation's EMF Project is a microwave engineer, Dr Emilie van Deventer, who had absolutely no health experience whatsoever when she was appointed. Go and look at her homepage http://www.next-up.org/pdf/EmilieVanDeventerCvBio.pdf and you'll see that she has absolutely no health background or expertise whatsoever, and her research interests are Electromagnetic characterization of high-speed circuits for telecommunications applications, Computational electromagnetics (RF frequency and time domain techniques), Electromagnetic compatibility and (last but not least....) Antenna modelling and design.

That last bit of her CV almost certainly landed her the job. If you put one and one together, you can see exactly what the agenda is. It's not a "health" problem. We don't need "health" experts to deal with this at the World Health Organisation. It's a "technical" problem -- how to make the antennas smaller and more dense across the landscape, so that we are bathed in this radiation at such short range that it really doesn't matter, does it.

I met Dr van Deventer and had three long conversations with her. She's a very nice lady, who told me among other things: "Industry is not interested in your health. They want the network to work properly." (That is an exact quote, I wrote it down verbatim immediately). But I could see she was out of her depth much of the time, and I even had to explain to her what her predecessor, Michael Repacholi, had said about precautionary principles and why the WHO would not endorse them -- because it was shown that talking about lower limits "alarmed" people.

This is why I routinely tell people, the WHO would far rather kill you, than (God forbid) alarm you.

As for this gem:
But for all _practical_ purposes, no, cell phones don't cause brain cancer
please can I tell this to a 30-something guy I met recently who has just had his second gruesome operation to remove malignant brain tumours. This guy is on the road all the time, and just loves to talk on his phone when he's driving -- he will literally talk for four hours on the trot while in a metal box, so that his handset is powered up to a maximum. A bit like this guy, perhaps: http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Cellphone-caused-my-cancer-20080807

Can I prove that my friend's hundreds of hours on his phone caused his brain tumours? For all _practical_ purposes? If you see the hideous holes they drilled in his skull, you might think twice about using the word "practical" in this context.

Remember this. Based on its own Interphone study, the IARC of the WHO has now found evidence that cellphone radiation is possibly implicated in causing brain tumours -- a raw 100% increase in tumours with a maximum of 27 minutes exposure a day (highly dose-specific, go look at the tables) could not be swept under the carpet.

Ah, but coffee is also a "possible" carcinogen, you say. I can choose to avoid coffee. I cannot choose to avoid 24/7 cellphone radiation when they are putting masts up every few metres, pumping this radiation through my body. There's a problem, pal. Capisce?
 
Lets keep this simple...
If coffee is just as bad for you as cellphones... why is nobody creating a big fuss about coffee?...
Or carpentry...
Or dry cleaning...
Or pickled vegetables...

Let make it complicated
Is the radiation from a cellphone ionizing? No... So then it simply cant change cell structures at low power levels
 
Please don't take my word for the fact that the literature shows DNA breaks etc. As I posted previously on this site, the industry's own research indicates this.
...
There's a problem, pal. Capisce?

Alright. I had a look at the ECOLOG report and indeed it says what you quoted. But it's a meta-analysis, so it's only as good as the studies on which it is based, combined with its interpretation thereof. Here is the abstract of one of those studies: (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9707093)

...The data from over 100 studies suggest that RFR is not directly mutagenic and that adverse effects from exposure of organisms to high frequencies and high power intensities of RFR are predominantly the result of hyperthermia; however, there may be some subtle indirect effects on the replication and/or transcription of genes under relatively restricted exposure conditions.

Here's another: (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9806599)

...Histopathological evaluations revealed no significant difference in numbers of malignant, metastatic or benign neoplasms between the two groups. Thus long-term exposures of mice prone to mammary tumors to 2450 MHz RF radiation at SARs of 0.3 and 1.0 W/kg had no significant effects when compared to sham-irradiated animals.

And another: (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10319725)

...The epidemiological evidence for an association between RF radiation and cancer is found to be weak and inconsistent, the laboratory studies generally do not suggest that cell phone RF radiation has genotoxic or epigenetic activity, and a cell phone RF radiation-cancer connection is found to be physically implausible. Overall, the existing evidence for a causal relationship between RF radiation from cell phones and cancer is found to be weak to nonexistent.

I literally picked those three at random from the ECOLOG Literature section. I have no idea how the ECOLOG report came up with the conclusions it did given the conclusions of at least three of the studies on which it is based directly contradicts them.

You produce another anecdote to support your contention that there is a problem. It's a sad story, but the plural of anecdote still isn't data.

If there is a subtle indirect effect, it is just that -- subtle and indirect. Smoking causes cancer (directly); the sun causes cancer (directly); cell phones do not cause cancer (directly).
 
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