All of them? Probably never. People have almost always picked and chosen the laws they prefer the most to follow.
Go ask gay people in Russia. Im sure they can give you a good example.
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Church Book Declared Hate Speech
- Thread starter LazyLion
- Start date
Most of those bronze age religious books have equal amounts of violence and hatred in them.
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
We could ask the ladies who get prosecuted for being raped in the Middle East? Those are based on people following a book that is claimed to be infallible. The bigotry and sexism that a lot of people perpetuate have a root in these books.
Kloofvreter
Honorary Master
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
He was talking about a Western book, presumably the Bible
I know he was. I'm saying a lot of these problems have their root in these books, referring to the Bible and the Quran. If you think the Bible isn't the source of a lot of people's bigotry then you're not believing what these people are saying they believe.
Rocket Raccoon
Executive Member
Intentional?
kopite1985
Well-Known Member
Did some searching and a church in Cape Town of the same name had to post an announcement on their website to say they have nothing to do with the church under question.
Website Announcement on Living Hope Cape Town's website
Website Announcement on Living Hope Cape Town's website
He was talking about a Western book, presumably the Bible
He used those examples as... Wait for it.. Examples.
Just because there aren't instances of those specific examples happening recently (or we know of), doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of other bigoted stuff is happening around the world because 'my bible tells me so'.
Johnone
Senior Member
Just for the record, the Bible never commands anyone to commit evil. The "founder" of Christianity, Jesus, said: the greatest commandment is to love God and to love others. What that means is that all other "lesser" commandments need to be interpreted through the lens of love. In fact, love is so much emphasised, that it is written that God is love, and if you do not love, but do all other good things in life, then that good means absolutely nothing (see 1 Corinthians 13).
A christian who does not love or who interprets the Bible to hate others are doing it wrong and are showing that from the heart they might not be true followers of Jesus and His teachings. (I know some enjoy crying, "True Scotsman fallacy". But it isn't valid, for there has to be a litmus test to see who Jesus' true followers are and not. Jesus himself said false teachers will arise to lead people astray. And the devil also enjoy quoting the bible, so not all interpretations are valid.)
Tl;dr: Hating is wrong. Jesus is all about love and so should his followers be.
F
Fudzy
Guest
What was the religion called before Jesus was on the scene?
porchrat
Honorary Master
There are plenty of examples of biblical scripture instructing people to kill certain groups. Groups like homosexuals, atheists, believers in other religions, witches, fortune tellers, those who work on the Sabbath, newly married non-virgin girls, those who reject the ruling of a priest... the list is endless.
I don't know about you but I certainly consider these things to be examples of people being instructed to commit evil.
(and that is just the instructions on killing, there is more. Genocide being held up as a good thing, details on how to treat your slaves, denouncement of inter-ethnicity marriages as wrong and evil etc.)
Problem is what does and doesn't constitute the "true" path is obviously up to interpretation. That is the part that makes the "no true Scotsman" label valid.
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daveza
Honorary Master
Judaism
Fulcrum29
Honorary Master
There was no name as there was no organisation, but only Gentiles and/or Jews. The nature in this debate will surround the Hebrew people with 5 old books and text collections (many missing today) to make up the Old Testament. They called it Torah, simply related to law. I also previously said that there is no place in our society today to welcome many laws which was appropriate as per the Hebrew people. Torah also has a deeper understanding when it comes to the Hebrew people as the Old Testament (Deuteronomy, Exodus, Genesis, Leviticus and Numbers) is to them God’s revelation to humanity, many revelations being challenged in the New Testament in comparison.
So when Jesus made his introduction, he stated, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him”.
I quoted the above, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jn+14:6-7.
Christ as a person, made him one with men, taking the whole Old Testament in perspective:
- All human sins are, at their root, a sin against himself and that;
- He will return at the end of time to be the final judge of all human beings, and that the nature of their judgment will be dependent on how people have responded to himself.
Now he established that he is The Way, so did Jesus receive his Followers (disciples). These Jewish now became the first Christians, understood Jesus to be equal and even superior to Torah (God’s revelation to humanity).
I think this is the standard explanation how Christianity came known to man. In order to be a Christian is to recognise that Jesus is quite simply, The Way to God.
STS
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there is no logic with hatred
porchrat
Honorary Master
I'm pretty sure Jesus said that not a jot or tittle of the Law would change and that anyone who advocated changing even a single word was not welcome in heaven.
Fulcrum29
Honorary Master
In a manner yes, many laws in Deuteronomy was written by Moses taking in regard with the whole Israelite saga. When you know the Bible it is also known that God’s Ten Commandments and the Laws Moses established are complete separate laws. There are also the whole debate between God commanded (he commanded you) and Moses commanded (he commanded me). Moses also broke the Ten Commandments. This is but mere an example, but Deuteronomy is where many contradictions occur, mostly due to misinterpretation and misunderstanding.
The thing is, we don’t have the entire Bible, it is somewhat pieced together with too many gaps, many which translations caused, but we do have an enormous amount missing pieces, many which can be taken by looking closer at other Books in religion. This is a very interesting point, as we can conclude that religions share many ideologies.
I only study this, to piece history as I’m in love with war (conquering/migration) histories. These books is quite an interesting source.
But should God really exist, then he must appreciate his own creation and witness it evolve. All I can say is that the Bible, as many know it, cannot be taken literally.
I really do not want to discuss religion.
Jab
Expert Member
Who allowed that to happen?
Johnone
Senior Member
Of course it is all about interpretation. That is why the other Rabbis asked Rabbi Jesus, what his yoke is, i.e. what the greatest commandment according to him is. Every Rabbi had a "yoke" whereby they interpreted and understood the Scriptures (the old testament as we know it).
Jesus declaring that it is love, shows His disciples (followers) the way they should understand God and His commandments.
What this mean is often that the Old Testament only starts making sense when you understand the New Testament teachings of Jesus which he gave us all through His apostles (followers).
Based on what I have just written, the Bible doesn't command us to commit evil.
Now, the Old testament is often difficult to understand, because it speaks firstly to an ancient people (who no longer exist). It also speaks about them, their history, customs, laws, etc and how their God led them through an uncivilised world where they were often the weakest nation.
Israel were Yahweh's (God's) people. God made a promise to Abraham, that he will give him an offspring (Israel) as numerous as the stars in the sky. God, in making this covenant with Abraham, had an obligation to provide for Israel, to protect them, to redeem them, to bring them to the promised land.
It is only in reading the Old Testament in the correct context, where you can come to understand why God gave them commands to kill other nations. It was a dog eat dog world and either Israel killed and destroyed other nations, or they destroyed Israel.
Israel also had to be kept pure in order to stop it from imploding, therefore the law was given through Moses. Israel's very own constitution in how they should live and act in order to remain pure before God.
The law and commandments were given for Israel so that they can survive and bring about a true offspring for Abraham, which we find in the coming of Jesus.
Johnone
Senior Member
Romans 13:8-10:*Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.*For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."*Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
daveza
Honorary Master
You've read Revelations ?